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(ה(שם עצם) (שם עצם

Discussion in 'עברית (Hebrew)' started by airelibre, Apr 23, 2013.

  1. airelibre

    airelibre Senior Member

    English - London
    Just wondering how common it is to see phrases of the kind "היומולדת של"? Am I right in saying that, strictly speaking, this is not correct grammar? I've heard recently "הלחץ דם עלה לי", which surely should be "לחץ הדם עלה לי". Does this happen often to set phrases and are some of the more common of these constructions accepted in formal language?
  2. trigel Senior Member

    English - US, Korean
    I guess this "soldering" (הלחמה) of nouns isn't preferred by the Hebrew Language Academy to form new words or expressions at least according to the link I gave. Some compounds do get through the filter, however.
    Last edited: Apr 24, 2013
  3. ystab Senior Member

    Unfortunately, this error is quite common in spoken language, and it has also spread to informal written language, like on the internet.

    trigel, this in not about compound words, but rather a construct state.

    Please note that there is a form called צירוף בינוני (participle construct) that resembles the construct state, but in fact includes a present participle verb and a sort of an adverb - יושב ראש, יוצא דופן. According to the Academy, its definite form can be either יושב הראש or היושב ראש, and its plural form, for example, is יושבי הראש or היושבים ראש. See http://hebrew-academy.huji.ac.il/hahlatot/GrammarDecisions/terminologyOrdinance/Pages/Ch4D024.aspx for further information.
  4. origumi Senior Member

    A nice example of this phenomenon is העורך דינית.

    I recommend to avoid the form היושבים ראש, not only it sounds weird, people may simply misunderstand what you mean.

    In practice - most people write only יושב הראש and may say either יושב הראש or היושב ראש, depending on how careful they are. The form היושב ראש is usually regarded to be a mistake, although the Academy permits it as we see in ystab's link.
  5. arielipi Senior Member

    Also need to note, i have never heard the mistake occuring in plural form, היושבי ראש just dont happen יושבי הראש is.

    the formal rule to follow is the word somech is the one that takes the ה.
  6. airelibre

    airelibre Senior Member

    English - London
    Ok, so what I can assume from this is that other than ביטויים של צירוף בינוני, it's never accepted in formal writing to use for example היומולדת של מישהו, it has to be יום ההולדת של מישהו?
  7. ystab Senior Member

    Indeed. I just want to add that the compound יומולדת is also colloquial. Another colloquial compound you might encounter is בצפר, meaning בית ספר.
  8. airelibre

    airelibre Senior Member

    English - London
    It amazes me how many ways there are of writing בית ספר, none of them shortening down the time needed to write it by much: בי"ס, בצפר I think I've also seen 'בית סף

    Thanks for all the help.

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