1. The WordReference Forums have moved to new forum software. (Details)

לאכזב אוחילה

Discussion in 'עברית (Hebrew)' started by Isidore Demsky, Jul 11, 2013.

  1. Isidore Demsky Senior Member

    English
    What would the following phrase (read right to left) mean?

    לאכזב אוחילה
     
  2. airelibre

    airelibre Senior Member

    English - London
    I think we know which direction Hebrew is read in...

    Literally "to disappoint I will wait" but I'm not sure these words are meant to be part of one phrase: it doesn't sound right without a context around the words.
    Due to the final ה I think אוחילה is in a cohortative mood (it would be אוחיל), expressing willing of oneself. This doesn't really exist in English or modern Hebrew but is similar to "let me wait".

    The equivalent of the word אוחיל in modern Hebrew is אמתין from להמתין.
     
  3. Isidore Demsky Senior Member

    English
    What is the cohortative mood?

    Was there such a thing in ancient Hebrew?

    Can you give an example of how it's used?
     
  4. origumi Senior Member

    Hebrew
    No context - no way to provide good answer.

    In addition to airelibre's reply:

    לאכזב in Biblical Hebrew is usually interpreted as (1) to lie (like כזב and not אכזב in the modern language) or (2) to cease something that used to occur constantly (compare to נחל אכזב, that flows only after rain)
    אוחילה is mainly I shall wish, hope for.

    If you found these two words in Micah - they appear there in different places, not related to each other.
     
  5. Isidore Demsky Senior Member

    English
    So what would prevent לאכזב אוחילה from being translated "vain hope"?
     
  6. origumi Senior Member

    Hebrew
    YOU NEED TO PROVIDE CONTEXT. Have you just picked two random words from the Bible and want us to mold a meaning?
     
  7. Isidore Demsky Senior Member

    English
    I'd like to know if those two words mean anything when put together (as they were at a seance a friend of mine attended.)

    My friend is Jewish, the context is autonomic writing, and those are the only two words that were written.

    She's convinced they mean something, can they?

    I can say that "green air," "green empty," and "green sound" don't mean anything in English without asking for more context, and I can say that "green house," "green tree," or "green car" can mean something in English without asking for more context.

    Why can't you tell me (so I can tell my friend) whether לאכזב אוחילה means anything in Hebrew?

    Could it be translated "vain hope"?
     
    Last edited: Jul 12, 2013
  8. arielipi Senior Member

    Israel
    Hebrew
    Because hebrew is not context free language.
     
  9. origumi Senior Member

    Hebrew
    You received a good answer from airelibre, "to disappoint I will wait", with a change proposal from me "to lie I wish". We even don't know which of the possible readings of לאכזב should apply, therefore whether it's a infinitive or to+noun.
    No. The two words you asked about are infinitive + verb or to+noun + verb, "vain hope" is adjective + noun. also: disappoint/lie != vain. wait/wish != hope.
     
    Last edited: Jul 12, 2013
  10. arielipi Senior Member

    Israel
    Hebrew
    Actually leyakhel is to either wish, or expect/hope for (seomthing).
     
  11. Isidore Demsky Senior Member

    English
    After saying
    , you added
    That leaves me a little confused.

    If לאכזב equals vain, and אוחילה equals hope, why couldn't the two together be translated "vain hope"?

    Also, arelibre wrote
    Did this cohortative mood exist in ancient Hebrew?
     
  12. origumi Senior Member

    Hebrew
    Sorry, my comment above was polluted with tech lingo. read != as not equals.
    The words you ask about are "ancient Hebrew" if by ancient you mean Biblical times, 2200 or more years ago. "Cohortative" is the "let's do it" form. In biblical Hebrew cohortative is formed by adding -ah to the verb in future tense. The final ה of אוחילה is exactly that, as airelibre noted.


    @arielipi - אוחילה is of root י-ח-ל (same of אייחל) in binyan hif`il. You can see for example the traditional commendation to Micah 7:7, where אוחילה is paired with אצפה (in the same פסוק) and is practically like אייחל:
    https://he.wikisource.org/wiki/קטע:מצודות_על_מיכה_ז_ז


    Although not used in modern Hebrew, אוחילה is known through the piyyut אוחילה לאל. And in early modern Hebrew in the little song:

    אֶל מְנוּחַת עַרְבִּי אוֹחִילָה
    פַּעֲמוֹן בִּצְלִיל יוֹגִיעַ
    דִּין דּוֹן, דִּין דּוֹן

    Which is translation of the German song:

    O wie wohl ist mir am Abend,
    Wenn zur Ruh die Glocke läutet,
    Bim! bam! bim! bam! bim! bam!
     
  13. Isidore Demsky Senior Member

    English
    So a literal translation would be "to disappoint let me wait" (and that would make grammatical sense)?

    P.S. Would that mean "to disappoint me, let me wait," or "let me wait to disappoint you"?
     
    Last edited: Jul 13, 2013
  14. arielipi Senior Member

    Israel
    Hebrew
    I dont see how tehilim contradicts what i gave as a translation.
     
  15. origumi Senior Member

    Hebrew
    I assumed you're finding a different between אייחל and אוחיל, so attempted to demonstrate how their meaning is similar or identical. If you didn't then it's my misunderstanding.
     
  16. Isidore Demsky Senior Member

    English
    I thought "to disappoint let me wait," was the translation you gave me.

    If "to disappoint let me wait" is the correct translation, would the meaning be "if you want to disappoint me, let me wait," or "to disappoint you, I'll just wait"?

    Or would it be "disappoint them"?

    Tehilim is plural, isn't it?
     
    Last edited: Jul 13, 2013
  17. arielipi Senior Member

    Israel
    Hebrew
    For disappointment (on others) i shall expect/wait/hope.
    Thats my suggestion. I think it stays true to the way hebrew conveys it, with expect the one i think is the best use.
     

Share This Page