"משתדרגת"

Discussion in 'עברית (Hebrew)' started by babaz, Feb 6, 2014.

  1. babaz Senior Member

    Français
    Hello,

    "אפליקציית הארץ משתדרגת ומשתפרת"

    Could you please explain what the construction of "משתדרגת" ?
    With a root which would have 4 letters, I just know that doesn't seem to be a verb...

    Thank you
     
  2. trigel Senior Member

    English - US, Korean
    mishtadreget (root ש-ד-ר-ג in hitpaˁel, תש > שת)

    "upgraded and improved Haaretz app"?
     
  3. babaz Senior Member

    Français
    Thank you for your replies.

    I had had a Hebrew teacher who told us Hebrew verbs necessarily have 3 letters.
     
  4. Houndour New Member

    Hebrew
    The vast majority of Hebrew roots have 3 letters. Nonetheless, there are many standart four-letter roots (ש-ע-ב-ד, ט-ל-ט-ל, א-פ-ש-ר etc.) . In israeli modern Hebrew there are also very few 5-letter roots (usually slang and derive mostly from foreign words: פ-ל-ר-ט-ט, א-נ-ג-ל-ז), and even 6-letter roots.
     
    Last edited: Feb 6, 2014
  5. trigel Senior Member

    English - US, Korean
    אולי זה יותר מדויק לומר שהשורשים הם ש-דר-ג, א-פש-ר, פל-רט-ט, א-נגל-ז וכ'. (edit: .במובן סינכרוני, כמובן)
     
    Last edited: Feb 6, 2014
  6. ystab Senior Member

    Hebrew
    This notation is not more accurate, as it distorts the origin of some of these roots. Many four-letter roots are derived from a three-letter root. For example, roots that begin with a ש, can indicate a remaking of the three-letter root (ש-כ-ת-ב - rewrite, from כ-ת-ב - write). Instead, I would say that four- and five-letter roots can only be used in the "heavy" binyanim: Pi'el, Pu'al and Hitpa'el, as the strong Dagesh is separated into two distinct consonants.
     
  7. airelibre

    airelibre Senior Member

    English - London
    Also, many four letter roots are duplications of two letter roots: לטלטל ט.ל.ט.ל from ליטול ט.ל (or is this ט.ו.ל/נ.ט.ל ? - anyway the point is many four letter roots are two + two)
     
  8. origumi Senior Member

    Hebrew
    Not for Biblical roots like חמרמר (Job 16:16, Lamentations 1:20, Lamentations 2:11) which is Qal (Pa`al).
     
  9. arielipi Senior Member

    Israel
    Hebrew
  10. Houndour New Member

    Hebrew
    That may be true for all standard 4-letter (or more) roots in Hebrew, but when it comes to slang, or words that are used exclusively in certain jargons, you can find verbs in other binyanim as well. For example the verb להסגביר, derived from the words להסביר+גבר, and beeing used in feminist circles, can be conjugated as הוסגבר (binyan Huf'al) and so on.
     
  11. origumi Senior Member

    Hebrew
    Marginal slang of this kind tends to die young, apparently because is doesn't conform the usual patterns.
     
  12. trigel Senior Member

    English - US, Korean
    המילה ההיא אכן צריכה למות, לא משנה באיזו שפה :mad: (ואני אומר זאת כפמיניסט)
     
  13. Houndour New Member

    Hebrew
    כפמיניסט אני מסכים, אך הבאתי את המילה בהקשר אובייקטיבי לשוני בלבד, על מנת להראות שהסלנג של ימינו מתפתח בצורה שלא בדיוק עונה על כללי 4 אותיות השורש. במקרה של "להסגביר", זה כמובן כתוצאה מצורת הלחם שלא היתה קיימת בעבר.
     

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