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תופעות לוואי

Discussion in 'עברית (Hebrew)' started by hadronic, Jul 2, 2013.

  1. hadronic Senior Member

    New York
    French - France
    Hello,
    I have the impression that people say "tofa'ot levay", shouldn't it rather be "tof'ot levay" ? (Means "side effects")
    Thx!
     
  2. airelibre

    airelibre Senior Member

    English - London
    תופעה the singular of תופעות is pronounced tofa'a, so the final -a turns into -ot in plural construct, but the penultimate -a stays the same, so I'd say that tofa'ot is correct.
     
  3. ystab Senior Member

    Hebrew
    Actually, my dictionary says that in the construct state it turns to Schwa, and thus tof'ot.

    airelibre, in construct states the stress moves forward to the latter word, so the stress here does not stay penultimate.
     
  4. airelibre

    airelibre Senior Member

    English - London
    That's true, I'd forgotten about that. Would you agree then, with hadronic's impression that "people say tofa'ot levay", in error?
     
  5. origumi Senior Member

    Hebrew
    True, this is חוק ריחוק הטעם, in which the qamatz becomes shcwa when the stress moves forward. This law has no justification in the modern pronunciation and also it doesn't apply to patakh thus "a" sound remains there for many words. Therefore people may confuse the two - either keep the qamatz when it should become schwa, or change the patakh to schwa when it should remain patakh.
     
  6. hadronic Senior Member

    New York
    French - France
    Some qamatz don't weaken to schwa, though : בקשה bakkasha, bakkashat, bakkashot, bakkashotay.
    I believe it's the case for all action nouns of Pi'el and Hif'il.

    Back to initial topic, would you say that "tof'ot levay" is non-understandable, is understandable but sounds wrong, or is understandable but sounds pedantic ?
     
  7. arielipi Senior Member

    Israel
    Hebrew
    bakkashat is a very specific word which you barely hear.
    is understandable but sounds wrong.
     
  8. origumi Senior Member

    Hebrew
    חוקי החיטוף are described in many places, here for example: http://he.wikibooks.org/wiki/לשון/תורת_ההגה/חיטוף. There are many exceptions of course.
     

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