תזבחנו

Discussion in 'עברית (Hebrew)' started by Isidore Demsky, May 29, 2013.

  1. Isidore Demsky Senior Member

    English
    What does תזבחנו mean?

    (And is it an interrogative?)
     
  2. airelibre

    airelibre Senior Member

    English - London
    You shall sacrifice it.

    It's not interrogative.
     
  3. Isidore Demsky Senior Member

    English
    Thank you.

    Is that what it means in ancient or modern Hebrew?

    And could you point out any meaningful prefixes or suffixes to me?

    Why is it "you shall sacrifice it"?

    Does that it couldn't be part of a question, when combined with other words as part of a sentence?
     
    Last edited: May 30, 2013
  4. origumi Senior Member

    Hebrew
    Root ז-ב-ח.
    תזבח is qal future (imperfect) 2nd sing. masc. (see any verbs conjugation table).
    נו- is a suffix that denotes it (also us, but this wouldn't make sense).

    The meaning is identical in Biblical and Modern Hebrew. However forms like this are rarely used in modern times.
     
    Last edited: May 30, 2013
  5. Isidore Demsky Senior Member

    English
    Could this word be used as part of a question by adding a word, prefix, or suffix?
     
  6. origumi Senior Member

    Hebrew
    Every word can be used as part of a question... just add a question mark at the end and employ the appropriate tone. Or maybe you should clarify your question.
     
  7. Isidore Demsky Senior Member

    English
    Thank you.
     
  8. Isidore Demsky Senior Member

    English
    Is that as true in written Hebrew as it is in written English?

    Can any word be used as part of a question by adding some punctuation, or would you have to change the spelling or the form of the word to use it as part of a question?

    For example, could תזבחנו (as I spelled it) be used as part of a question, or would you need to add an interrogative ה ?
     
  9. airelibre

    airelibre Senior Member

    English - London
    Question marks didn't exist in Biblical Hebrew so context is required to suggest whether or not something is a question.

    In modern Hebrew question marks canbe used, but nobody would say תזבחנו in everyday speech.

    There are also question words (מתי when, מה what etc.).
     
  10. arielipi Senior Member

    Israel
    Hebrew
    There are equivalents to the WH words in hebrew.
    Any word can be a part of a question, and all you need to do is simply give the "im asking a question" tone.
     
  11. Isidore Demsky Senior Member

    English
    Thank you.
     
  12. Isidore Demsky Senior Member

    English
    Why wouldn't "us" make any sense?

    If I were a wife with children who felt that my husband was neglecting his family, couldn't I say "if you keep putting other things first, you will sacrifice us (תזבחנו)"?

    I know you said forms like תזבחנו are rarely used today, but could it be used in that way?

    Would it make sense?
     
    Last edited: Jun 6, 2013
  13. arielipi Senior Member

    Israel
    Hebrew
    [1] technically it can, but hebrew is dense so: a. ז-ב-ח just wouldnt be the right word for that, hebrew would use a word that is more in the 'ritual' category, להקריב-> תקריבנו.
    b.since z-v-kh is viewed as positive, you cant really do that to a human.

    [2] that construct doesnt feel natural in hebrew to me, but im usually alone in that opinion around here; see [1]b.

    [3] these forms [=possessive ] are not popular nowadays, but to say theyre rare is quite a length; in general, archaic words will tend to not be said in possessive form, as well as modern words.

    [4] yes, it can be used.

    PS: its important to notice that tizbehenu is not equal to tizbehehu (second person acting on third person). now, if im not wrong, there a difference between (second person acting on second person) and (second person acting on first person) and i think its (respectively) tizbeheno tizbehenu (single male -> single male) (single male -> we/us)
     
  14. Isidore Demsky Senior Member

    English
    I have trouble with understanding the genders, and you lost me here.

    Are you saying tizbeheno would be a single male acting on (sacrificing?) a single male, and tizbehenu would be a single male acting on a (male, mixed gender, or neuter?) plurality?

    Also, what do you mean when you say that ז-ב-ח wouldn't be the right word because Hebrew is dense?

    What do you mean by "dense"?
     
    Last edited: Jun 6, 2013
  15. airelibre

    airelibre Senior Member

    English - London
    Same here
     
  16. arielipi Senior Member

    Israel
    Hebrew
    Each word has strict use, that is dense.
    ז-ב-ח is viewed as a good sacrifice, and since sacrificing humans isnt good by judaism, which influenced back then hebrew, ז-ב-ח wouldnt be used on humans. ק-ר-ב would be, because its the opposite of ז-ב-ח in connotation.
    tizbehenu would be a single male acting[=doing the action of] on unknown gender plural.
    tizbeheno would be "...." single male


    Mostly that is why the possessive forms arent liked by people, its causing too much confusion and it sounds almost the same..
     
  17. airelibre

    airelibre Senior Member

    English - London
    http://biblelexicon.org/deuteronomy/15-21.htm

    Here tizbahenu is single male on single male.


    Could you explain what the difference between תזבחנו and תזבחהו is? You hinted at it earlier, but originally I thought these both meant 'you shall sacrifice it'?
     
  18. arielipi Senior Member

    Israel
    Hebrew
    Thats what i said, i dont remember the difference between acting on first/second person but the suffix hu/-am/-en and some more is for the third person.
    That is from the bible, where many exceptions occur, and its actually acting on third male single person.
     
  19. Isidore Demsky Senior Member

    English
    So תזבחנו would mean "you shall sacrifice him, or them" (because it has this third person suffix), and תזבחהו would be used for "you shall sacrifice it"?
     
    Last edited: Jun 8, 2013
  20. Egmont Senior Member

    Massachusetts, U.S.
    English - U.S.
    Nope. It's third person singular masculine only. The point of the previous posts is that the Bible contains several versions of this form as the language evolved. Still, it can't be plural; it must be singular. And it can't be neuter, because Hebrew doesn't have a neuter gender for nouns. Every noun is either masculine or feminine. A book, for example, is masculine, so we would use masculine forms with it in Hebrew: "Pick up the book and take him to the teacher." In translating this to English, we would probably say "... and take it to the teacher," but that doesn't reflect the Hebrew precisely.
     
  21. arielipi Senior Member

    Israel
    Hebrew
    Egmont, whats wrong with תזבחם, תזבחן?
     
  22. Egmont Senior Member

    Massachusetts, U.S.
    English - U.S.
    Did I say something is wrong with those words? I thought this thread was about תזבחנו. It can't refer to them, only to him (which might be it in English if it refers to an inanimate object that has masculine grammatical gender in Hebrew).
     
  23. Isidore Demsky Senior Member

    English
    Thank you.
     

Share This Page