إسقاط شهادات الموحِّدين وإخافة علماء المتكلِّمين

Discussion in 'العربية (Arabic)' started by madelung, Jan 27, 2013.

  1. madelung Junior Member

    Ankara
    Turkish
    قد علمت ما كنا فيه من إسقاط شهادات الموحِّدين وإخافة علماء المتكلِّمين. ولولا الكلام لم يَقُم لله دين، ولم نبنْ من الملحدين، ولم يكن بين الباطل والحقّ فرق، ولا بين النبي والمتنبِّي فصل، ولا بانت الحُجة من الحيلة، والدليل من الشُّبهة

    I understand somethings of these sentences. But I can't translate. I need full translation? Could you translate to English please? It is from al-Jahiz's "Risala fi Nafy al-Tashbih."

    Thanks in advance....
     
    Last edited: Jan 28, 2013
  2. rayloom Senior Member

    Paris, France
    Arabic (Hijazi Arabic)
    Bear in mind that the text contains (Islamic) theological terms whose meanings won't be evident to the general public. Also Al-Jahiz was a littérateur and his writings were filled with rhetoric (not necessarily in a negative sense), such as semantic repetition.

    Anyways a literal translation would go something like:

    I had known what we were in from dismissing the testimonies of monotheists and intimidating the theologians of the kalamists. And if it weren't for ('ilm) al-Kalam, the religion of God (Islam) wouldn't have been established. And we wouldn't have been distinguished/identified from the unbelievers/apostates. And there wouldn't have been a difference between falsehood and truth, nor between prophet and "false prophet". Nor would proof be distinguished from scheme, nor evidence from dubiosity/fallacy.
     
  3. madelung Junior Member

    Ankara
    Turkish
    Rayloom, thank you so much for translation.
     
  4. Qureshpor Senior Member

    Punjabi, Urdu پنجابی، اردو
    rayloom, at the risk of sounding really stupid and I hope you and others will forgive me for asking this question but how does one decide if the verb is 3alimtu/3alimta/3alimti? Is it a matter of trial and error or is there a short cut to this?
     
  5. cherine

    cherine Moderator

    Alexandria, Egypt
    Arabic (Egypt).
    Frankly, I believe it's 3alimta. This is because in many classical texts, the author addresses the reader (anta).
    But this, of course, can be 3alimtu if the context indicates otherwise, like if the author was relating his experience and talking about himself.
     
  6. rayloom Senior Member

    Paris, France
    Arabic (Hijazi Arabic)
    Not a stupid question at all :)
    It depends on the context. I was hasty and hadn't searched for the whole piece. But it's part of a letter directed at أبي الوليد محمد بن أحمد بن أبي داود addressing him directly.
    So I should've translated it as "qad 3alimta" (you had known) as Cherine said.
     
  7. Qureshpor Senior Member

    Punjabi, Urdu پنجابی، اردو
    Thank you Cherine and rayloom for the explanation.

    Would "qad 3alimta" perhaps mean "You already know.." in the same sense when "fahimta?" implies "Do you understand" as opposed to "Did you understand?"?
     

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