الأرواح جنود مجندة

Discussion in 'العربية (Arabic)' started by borhane, Feb 2, 2006.

  1. borhane

    borhane Senior Member

    Algiers
    Algerian french Arabic
    الأرواح جنود مجندة فما تعارف منها ائتلف و ما تناكر منها اختلف
     
  2. elroy

    elroy Motley mod

    Chicago, IL
    American English, Palestinian Arabic
    I have an idea, but I'm not positive so I'll wait for others to contribute.

    In the meantime, I'd like to remind you to give your threads meaningful, informative titles. :) Thanks!
     
  3. cherine

    cherine Moderator

    Alexandria, Egypt
    Arabic (Egypt).
    No Elroy, please post your translation. This text is a Hadith, I tried to look for its translation but didn't find one, though I'm pretty sure it's translated somewhere.
    If you can give us you version, maybe it would be easier for discussion.
    Here's a link to the Arabic text of the hadith with a useful explanation (though there are some difficult words, but the whole is understandable).
     
  4. elroy

    elroy Motley mod

    Chicago, IL
    American English, Palestinian Arabic
    Ok, I'll have a go at it. My reservations stemmed from the fact that I'm not completely sure I understand the literal meaning of the Arabic text (even though I think I understand what it's trying to say); I think you do understand it but may be having trouble coming up with an English translation. If that's the case, perhaps you can help me better understand the Arabic text (if I misinterpret it) and I can help with an English translation.

    Ok, so here goes:

    الأرواح جنود مجندة = Spirits are armed soldiers
    فما تعارف منها ائتلف = those who get to know each other get along/are compatible
    و ما تناكر منها اختلف = those who do not know each other dispute and quarrel

    I am mostly uncertain about the parts in red. What I think the text is trying to say is that people either get along with each other or don't based on the existence or nonexistence of an inexplicable kinship. Nevertheless, I don't see how "who get to know each other" and "who do not know each other" express this kinship; they seem to suggest that it's acquaintance that leads to compatibility, and lack thereof that does not (and that's not the same as kinship). Also, the metaphor with "armed soldiers" is not clear.

    As you can see, my attempts are shaky - so please feel free to comment and improve. :)
     
  5. cherine

    cherine Moderator

    Alexandria, Egypt
    Arabic (Egypt).
    Nice essay, could you check the link I gave -a bit too late :)- then re-discuss the translation ?
    The first mistake you made is about that "armed soldiers", I can't translate it -yet- but i'm sure that's not what it means.
    the rest if very fine to me, to get along and to ... (the contrary ? but not quarrel )
    Oh man ! that's a tough piece of translation:eek: :)
     
  6. cherine

    cherine Moderator

    Alexandria, Egypt
    Arabic (Egypt).
    This hadith also remind me of a proverb -I hope i'm not mistaken in the comparison- at-tuyuuru 3ala ashkaaliha taqa3u الطيور على أشكالها تقع I think they mean the same : those who get along... (don't remember the English version, sorry)
     
  7. elroy

    elroy Motley mod

    Chicago, IL
    American English, Palestinian Arabic
    Yes, I just read through the link (after having submitted my post ;)):

    I see now that جنود means something along the lines of "troops" or "groups" (I guess I was misled by the colloquial meaning in Palestinian Arabic!). Could مجندة mean "diverse"?

    Now, you said the rest was fine, but I'm still kind of confused. The explanation seems to suggest that what the text meant by تعارف is something like "be compatible" (وقيل إنها موافقة صفاتها التي جعلها الله عليها وتناسبها في شيمها), which would make more sense to me. (However, I don't know what شيم means). Then, I would assume that تناكر would refer to incompatibility.

    The opposite of "get along"? You could very simply say "do not get along." Let's worry about getting the meaning straight, then we can think about making it sound elegant. :)

    Ok, so here's my updated suggestion:

    Spirits come in diverse forms; those who are compatible get along (coexist in harmony), and those who are incompatible do not (clash).

    The English equivalent of الطيور على أشكالها تقع is "Birds of a feather flock together."
     
  8. borhane

    borhane Senior Member

    Algiers
    Algerian french Arabic
    الترجمة الحرفية للمثل الذي جاء به الأخ هي كالآتي : الطيور ذوات الريش الواحد يأوي بعضها إلى بعض , و أصل هذا المثل آية في سفر يشوع بن سيراخ تقول: الطيور تأوي إلى أشكالها و الحق يعود إلى العاملين به ( 27 , 10 ) و أضن أن أقرب الأمثال إليه هو
    like will to like ............ I hope that someone will correct my translation
     
  9. elroy

    elroy Motley mod

    Chicago, IL
    American English, Palestinian Arabic
    Like will to like?


    لم أسمع ذلك أبداً. أظن أن الترجمة التي اقترحتها تفيد نفس المعنى من حيث المحتوى غير الحرفي.
     
  10. borhane

    borhane Senior Member

    Algiers
    Algerian french Arabic
    لقد جاءت الترجمة الحرفية باللغة العربية أما ما ورد بالإنكليزية فهو مثل آخر يؤدي نفس المعنى .
     
  11. Mmustafa Senior Member

    Egypt, Arabic
    I was searching the Internet for this Hadeeth and WR thread was the first hit. I clicked the link to see what is going on here and liked to provide a translation (I think it needs editing):
    Abu Huraira reported Allah's Messenger (may peace be upon him) Saying: souls are troops collected together and those who familiarised with each other (in the heaven from where these come) would have affinity, with one another (in the world) and those amongst them who opposed each other (in the Heaven) would also be divergent (in the world).
    http://www.searchtruth.com/searchHa...k=&start=0&records_display=10&search_word=all
     

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