السلام عليكم - وعليكم السلام (vocalization)

Discussion in 'العربية (Arabic)' started by Diadem, Jul 4, 2013.

  1. Diadem Senior Member

    USA (English)
    In the phrase السلام عليكم, why is the word السلام transliterated into English as as-salāmu (note the "u" at the end), but in the response وعليكم السلام , the word السلام is transliterated into English as as-salām (note the missing "u" at the end)? Can someone explain the reason please that there is no "u" at the end of السلام in the response?
     
  2. Finland Senior Member

    Finland
    finnois
    Hello! This is how you vocalise the greeting:
    السلامُ عليكم
    وعليكم اليسلامُ
    So, the u-sound is theoretically there (because the word is in nominative case). As for its pronunciation, even when reading final vowels (case endings) out loud, one doesn't pronounce the last final vowel of the last word of a phrase (the "pausa" phenomenon).

    HTH
    S
     
  3. Diadem Senior Member

    USA (English)
    Thanks, that's what I figured! :)
     
  4. ShakeyX Senior Member

    British English
    [Moderator's Note: Merged with a previous thread that deals with a similar topic]
    Just looking on wiktionary for the greating and response:

    اَلسَّلَامُ عَلَيْكُمْ as-salamu alaikum
    وَعَلَيْكُمُ السَّلَامُ wa alaikumu s-salamu


    So far I understand that nouns have a informal and a nominative form such as milk being either "Halib" or "Halibun" so I understand "Salam" having this ability.

    However Alaikum is simply an already inflected form of "عَلَى" (on). So grammatically speaking, where is this extra "u" on the end of alaikumu coming from?

    Small Sidenote: Also curious as to why as-salamu needs the doubling mark above the s "سَّ". You would think as the "L" in "Al" has already been turned into an S, using the doubling mark would make it "as-ssalamu" with 3 esses in a row.
     
  5. bearded man

    bearded man Senior Member

    Milan
    Italian
    I understand that in some dialects (for instance Egyptian) the determinative article usually sounds 'il' instead of MSA 'al'. Therefore I would like to know whether in this form of greeting Egyptians say is-salaam or they stick to the traditional as-salaam. Thank you.
     
    Last edited: Jul 11, 2015
  6. Ibn Nacer Senior Member

    French - France
    I think وَعَلَيْكُمُ السَّلَامُ is correct, the vowel u is added to avoid the meeting of two sukûn. This is not a vowel declension.

    The cheddah in سَّ is because the letter س is sun letter. See this : https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sun_and_moon_letters
     
    Last edited: Jul 11, 2015
  7. bearded man

    bearded man Senior Member

    Milan
    Italian
    Hello Ibn Nacer
    After the miim of -kum you have a vowel in any case (first letter of the article 'al>as-'), so I do not understand why you say ''the meeting of two sukuun''. Thank you for explaining.
     
  8. Ibn Nacer Senior Member

    French - France
    Hello,

    Sorry my English is bad but I'll try to explain ...

    The first letter of the article "al"* should not be pronounced when the word (with the article) is preceded by another. Moreover if the first letter of this word is a sun letter then the letter "l" of article "al" is also not pronounced and we add a Cheddah on the sun letter.

    So we have this: ال + سَلَامٌ = السَّلَامُ

    The word السَّلَامُ is pronounced as-salaamu (the letter "l" of article "al" is not pronounced) and if this word is preceded by another then the first letter of the article "al" should not be pronounced. For example, وَالسَّلَامُ is pronounced was-salaamu.

    The problem with عَلَيْكُمْ is that it does not end with a vowel, that is why the vowel u is added when it is followed by a word with the article "al" like this : وَعَلَيْكُمُ السَّلَامُ that we pronounce like this : wa 'alaykumus-salaam.

    * The first letter of the article "al" is a hamzatul-wasl.

    I hope this explanation is clear.
     
    Last edited: Jul 11, 2015
  9. fdb Senior Member

    Cambridge, UK
    French (France)
    The general rule is that if a word ending with sukūn is followed by hamzatu l-waṣl the inserted euphonic vowel is i. There are however a few exceptions. The preposition min followed by waṣl become min-a, not min-i. And after the suffixes –kum and –hum the euphonic vowel is u. There is some good historic reason for this, but it is best to regard it simply as an exception.
     
    Last edited: Jul 12, 2015
  10. bearded man

    bearded man Senior Member

    Milan
    Italian
    Many thanks to IbnNacer and (particularly)fdb for the explanations.
     

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