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حمد الله على السلامة

Discussion in 'العربية (Arabic)' started by Trinigirl, Aug 30, 2006.

  1. Trinigirl New Member

    English/US
    Hello,

    I'm trying to translate 'Humdullilah Salama' and its response, 'Allah Yusalamak.' (Sorry I don't have windows XP so I couldn't download the Arabic keyboard - but I think the phrases are common enough that hopefully you know what I mean.)

    I currently have them translated as 'Praise God for your well-being' and 'May God keep you well,' respectively. I translated them myself, so I'm not sure this is right. Also, to me, there's an element of 'welcome home' or 'welcome back' that's not coming across in this translation. Does anyone have any ideas for better and/or more accurate translations? I'm not sure if it makes a difference or not, but this is in the context of people speaking Syrian Arabic. (Although as far as I know the same phrases are used throughout the Arab world - I could be wrong there, though.)

    Any help would be much appreciated.
     
  2. cherine

    cherine Moderator

    Alexandria, Egypt
    Arabic (Egypt).
    Hello Trinigirl and welcome to the forum :)
    Your translation is correct. And these two sentences are common in almost all the Arab countries.

    We use it as synonym for "welcome home" because it's sort of "Praise be to God you came [back] home safe".

    You can search for similar threads where this expression was discussed before.
     
  3. essam darwish New Member

    egypt/arabic
    hi there
    the transilation is correct and cherine is right when she said it is almost used by all arabs but i just want to correct the english imitation of the phrase as i think you did that with a little mistake . you wrote it " Humdullilah Salama " while it should be written " hamdellah allah essalamah " or " hamdellah assalamah " by useing insertion which is commonly used .
     
  4. abusaf Senior Member

    Stockholm
    Sweden
    This could be very misleading.

    Rather, a more suitable transliteration would perhaps be:

    alhamdulillah aala as-salama
     
  5. elroy

    elroy Motley mod

    Urbana-Champaign, IL
    Am. English, Pal. Arabic (See profile)
    I agree that Essam's suggestions could be misleading. I made a few modifications to your suggestion, to make it even more precise.

    I should point out that your transliteration is in MSA, so nobody says it that way in everyday life. In Palestinian Arabic, the pronunciation is il-7amdilla 3as-salaame.
     
  6. Trinigirl New Member

    English/US
    Thanks everybody for all your help. I really appreciate it!
     
  7. essam darwish New Member

    egypt/arabic
    hello there ........ i do not know why my suggestion is misleading ??? the imitation i wrote is uttered by 75 million persons in Egypt ..... i think this is the most common pronunciation of the phrase .........
     
  8. elroy

    elroy Motley mod

    Urbana-Champaign, IL
    Am. English, Pal. Arabic (See profile)
    Hello Essam,

    We meant that the transliteration was not precise. You have to remember that some foreigners rely on accurate transliterations to be able to correctly pronounce and read Arabic. Our transliterations were meant to be more faithful representations of the correct pronunciation.

    By the way, please do try to capitalize properly. :)
     
  9. MarcB Senior Member

    US English
    It would be good to explain why these are not clear i.e. misleading. Also not everyone knows the number symbols so we should give a reference link.
     
  10. elroy

    elroy Motley mod

    Urbana-Champaign, IL
    Am. English, Pal. Arabic (See profile)
    :) .حاضر يا مارك

    Why was it misleading? Let's take a look at it.

    hamdellah allah essalamah

    1. It is not clear where the "h" in the first word refers to a هـ a ح.
    2. There is no indication of a ع before the first "a" in "allah."
    3. The "h" at the end of the "allah" is superfluous.
    4. The first letter of the last word is written which gives the impression that it should be pronounced.
    5. The second "a" in "essalamah" is not indicated as long.
    6. The last "h" gives the impression that it should be pronounced.

    As for the numbers, a detailed explanation of what they refer to is found in the sticky all members are asked to read before they post. :)
     
  11. MarcB Senior Member

    US English
    Elroy I agree with you, but it is obvious that essam does not understand why his statement is not clear.
     
  12. abusaf Senior Member

    Stockholm
    Sweden
    I thought it was misleading since it said Allah in the middle, which is usually the transliteration of الله
     
  13. Josh_ Senior Member

    the phrontistery
    U.S., English
    Yes, that is the first thing to come to my mind as well.
     
  14. jmt356 Senior Member

    I sometimes hear الحمد الله على السلامة, but that is wrong because حمد الله is an إضافة construction and therefore, the first word should be indefinite, right?

    Also, are both of these forms correct:
    حمد الله على السلامة
    حمد الله على سلامتك
     
  15. suma Senior Member

    USA
    English, USA
    This is misleading " hamdellah allah essalamah "
    That middle word looks like الله
     
  16. AndyRoo Senior Member

    London
    English
    No, it's written الحمد لله [praise be to God].
     
  17. akhooha Senior Member

    English - USA
    You're both missing the point. Of course, it is absolutely correct to say "al-Hamdu lillaah 'ala-s-salaama" (الحمد لله على السلامة). However it is also correct (in colloquial as well as in MSA) to say "al-Hamdillah 'ala-s-salaama" (الحمدالله على السلامة). Why? Because the phrase "al-Hamdillah" (الحمدالله) is actually conceived of as one word, not an iDaafah constrtuction. The phrase "al-Hamdillah" (الحمدالله) has the meaning of "the act of saying al-Hamdu lillaah". See the verb Hamdala (حمدل) and the noun "Hamdala" (حمدلة). The proper way to write the entire phrase is actually "al-Hamdalatu 'ala-salaama" (الحمدَلةُ على السلامة)(if MSA) or "al_Hamdila 'ala-salaama" (الحمدِلَه على السلامه) or "al-Hamdila 'as-salaama" (الحَمْدِلَه عاسّلامَه) (if colloquial).
     
  18. jmt356 Senior Member

    الحمدالله (one word) is very rare on Google and Microsoft Office wants to put a space between الحمد and الله. In contrast, Microsoft Office recognizes الحمد لله.

    حَمْدَلَة (one word) appears in my dictionary as “doxology.”

    Is الحمد لله على سلامتك also correct?
     
    Last edited: Jun 23, 2013
  19. akhooha Senior Member

    English - USA
    Yes, I am not surprised that الحمدالله (one word) is very rare and that MS Word wants to put a pace between the words.
    As I pointed out, that is not the correct way to write it. The correct way to write it is (الحَمْدَلَة). It is a noun (meaning "the saying of al-Hamdu lillaah") and it comes from the verb (حَمْدَلَ), which means "to say al-Hamdu lillaah". Most Arabic dictionaries will show you that. (You can find it in Hans Wehr's dictionary).
    For example, (حَمْدَلْتُ) means "I said al-Hamdu lillaah".

    And yes, it is "correct" to say (الحمد لله على سلامتك).
    Just as it is also "correct" to say (الحمدلة على سلامتك).

    While the intent of both statements is the same, one cannot say that the actual literal meanings of the phrases are equal to one another. They are just different ways (and both "correct") of saying essentially the same thing.
    The source of confusion is found in your assumption that (الْحَمْدَلَة)( in MSA ) (الْحَمْدِلَة) (in colloquial) is somehow an ungrammatical iDaafa. It is not. It is one word.
     
  20. akhooha Senior Member

    English - USA
    P.S. If you care to look up the word "doxology", by the way, you will find that it means "An expression of praise to God".
    (from Greek "doxos" (praise) and "logos" (word), so I guess "doxology" is as good a definition as any, although it's probably too obscure for most English speakers to readily understand and it is usually (but not exclusively) used to refer to Christian expressions of praise to God. I'd use that dictionary with great caution....
     
  21. إسكندراني

    إسكندراني Senior Member

    أرض الأنجل
    عربي (مصر)ـ | en (gb)
    I've never seen a verb like حمدلة before, maybe it's a recent coinage?
    It's simply الحمد لله على السلامة or أحمد الله على السلامة which became corrupted in dialect to sound like Hamdella/Hamdalla/etc.
     
  22. akhooha Senior Member

    English - USA
    It's been around for quite some time. (See http://www.daruur.com/arabic/qaamus_almoheetlist.php?psearch=حمدل&Submit=+البحث+&psearchtype=):
    <<الحمدلة : حكاية قولك : الحمد لله>>
    and there are a number of other words following that pattern, equally as old, mentioned in لسان العرب:
    أَراد أَنه يقال: بسمل إِذا قال: بسم الله، وحوقل إِذا قال: لا حول ولا قوَّة إِلا بالله، وحمدل إِذا قال: الحمد لله، وجَعْفَلَ
    جَعْفَلَةً من جُعِلْتُ فداءك، وأَراد أَنه يقال: بسمل إِذا قال: بسم الله، وحوقل إِذا قال: لا حول ولا قوَّة إِلا بالله، وحمدل إِذا قال: الحمد لله، وجَعْفَلَ جَعْفَلَةً من جُعِلْتُ فداءك، والحَيْعَلَةُ من حيّ على الصلاة. من حيّ على الصلاة.

    It has not been corrupted by dialect nor have the other words
    They are all good fuSHa...
     
  23. jmt356 Senior Member

    Are both of these formulations correct:
    الحمد لله على السلامة
    الحمد لله على سلامتك
     
  24. AndyRoo Senior Member

    London
    English
    Yes, as stated in a number of posts in this thread.
     
  25. akhooha Senior Member

    English - USA
    Yes, and so are الحمدلة على السلامة and الحمدلة على سلامتك.
    (see post #22)
     
  26. cherine

    cherine Moderator

    Alexandria, Egypt
    Arabic (Egypt).
    I have to disagree here.
    The word 7amdala is just the name of the act of saying الحمد لله. It can't replace it. The same for the other words بسملة، حوقلة، حيعلة.
    So, for example, a mu2azzin, cannot replace حي على الصلاة in the call for prayer with the word 7ay3ala, nor can we replace the expression/phrase بسم الله الرحمن الرحيم with the word بسملة .
    The same goes for الحمد لله : we can't replace it with الحمدلة. It would be like replacing a verb with a maSdar in a verbal sentence without changing the structure of the sentence.


    P.S. To clarify the usage a bit, here's a couple of sample sentences:

    بدأ الكاتب نَصَّه بالبسملة والحمدلة، ثم عرض لموضوعه باختصار (this means that the author started his texts with the phrases بسم الله الرحمن الرحيم والحمد لله رب العالمين... and not the words basmala and 7amdala themselves)
    يبدأ الخطيب كلامه دائمًا بالبسملة والصلاة على النبي
     
  27. abdulwahid Senior Member

    Nordic
    Totally agree with you Cherine, and also for the record. الحمد لله is not an idafa construction, and therefore there is no problem with the word hamd to be in the definite.
     
  28. akhooha Senior Member

    English - USA
    I think you misunderstand me. I never said that it could replace it. I merely pointed out that الحمدلة على السلامة is grammatically correct. People use that phrase all the time. I was pointing out that phrase particularly in response to jmt356 who had said way earlier in the thread:
    I was just pointing out that what he had heard was not incorrect, but that it was actually a separate and different phrase from الحمد لله على السلامة and to show him the correct way to write what he had heard.
     
  29. abdulwahid Senior Member

    Nordic
    I never came across الحمدلة على السلامة. Do you have any source for this?
     
  30. akhooha Senior Member

    English - USA
    If by "source" you mean an actual reference work that indicates that the phrase's existence is officially recognized by academic authorities, then I must answer "no".
    However, if by "source" you mean proof that people actually use that phrase, then the answer is "yes" --- and there are plenty. Here are just a few:http://www.we4iq.com/vb/showthread.php?t=249201
    http://www.albalqanews.net/NewsDetails.aspx?NewsID=19479
    http://www.jawlany.com/thepage.asp?...%C7%D3%ED%D1%20%D5%CF%DE%ED%20%C7%E1%E3%DE%CA
    http://www.irassa.com/modules/publisher/item.php?itemid=3066
    http://www.flyingway.com/vb/archive/index.php/t-85665-p-4.html
    http://www.geran.co.il/news-18-5433.html
    http://www.wen.co.il/وفد-من-جمعية-نسيج-تزور-الشاب-عبدالله-سعيد-نجم-في-بيت-جن/13992.news
    http://www.derekalmhbe.com/vb/showthread.php?t=13044
    http://www.altyoor.net/vb/archive/index.php/t-108601.html
    You could also just try googling "الحمدلة على السلامة" (with the quotes, and make it clear to google that you are NOT looking for الحمد لله على السلامة ) and you'll find 12,000 other examples.
    HTH
     
  31. abdulwahid Senior Member

    Nordic
    Thank you. Maybe we can agree that the use of الحمدلة على السلامة is colloquial?
    It's not from classical Arabic, neither from MSA (as far as I know, hence the question for references), but maybe it came to existence because some people find it hard to pronunce the double laam in the word lillah, i.e instead of saying al-hamdu lillah, they pronounced it al-hamdilah (using the kasrah instead of damma aswell since it's easier on the tounge). In my opinion this is much more likely than it beeing derived from the classical Arabic word الحمدلة.


     
  32. akhooha Senior Member

    English - USA
    If you feel the need to classify, since the phrase is probably more commonly spoken than it is written, I suppose you could fairly safely qualify it as "colloquial".

    An interesting theory, but I rather doubt that some people (unless inflicted with a serious speech impediment) have difficulty pronouncing "al-hamdu lillah", especially as it occurs in the second line of probably the most widely memorized and recited chapter of the Qurʾān.

    Why do you think it so unlikely that a word whose source is written classical would find its way into colloquial speech? It's not as if words are marked "Sorry -- already reserved for Classical/MSA use only --- Colloquial use either prohibited or strongly discouraged". If such were the case, colloquial would lose probably more than 90% of its vocabulary.
     
  33. abdulwahid Senior Member

    Nordic
    The reason I wrote that is because there is no evidence for the use of الحمدلة على السلامة in classical Arabic or MSA (again, as far as I know).

    It's not a matter of whether they can pronounce it or not. If they want to pronounce it correctly they can, but colloquial language has a tendency to ease pronounciation. The Moroccans for example say: "karak" when they want to ask someone how they are. This is probably short for كيف أراك. Now any Moroccan can say kayfa arak, but custom group belonging etc. makes the choice of wording easy.

    If you can show me any reference from a classical source then of course I will admit that the word has found it's way to colloquial speech, but so far there is nothing that implies that this has actually happened.
     
  34. Ihsiin Senior Member

    England
    English
    It seems to pretty obvious to me that 7amdulla is simply a colloquial simplification of الحمد لله. Similarly, for example, there is في امان الله -> fiimaalaa and اسم الله -> smalla​.
     
  35. Bakr Senior Member

    Arabic
    أظن أن التعبير صحيح إن كان بهذا المعنى
    لنقل أو دعنا نقول له الحمدلة (الحمد لله) على السلامة
     
  36. akhooha Senior Member

    English - USA
    Then why do you suppose that it's found in MSA / classical dictionaries (none of which note that it's "colloquial") such as Hans Wehr, Lane, and Steingass ? Look it up: verb = حَمْدَلَ . Noun = حَمْدَلَةٌ .
    I'm really puzzled by all this apparent resistance to recognizing that a "classical" word can be and is used in colloquial.
     
  37. cherine

    cherine Moderator

    Alexandria, Egypt
    Arabic (Egypt).
    I don't see a resistance to the fact that classical words can, and are, used in colloquial. It's just that the form 7amdala 3assalama/3ala's-salaama is not used in colloquial, as far as I know, nor is it used as an direct speech expression in either standard nor colloquial Arabic.

    What I said, and still say, is that حمدلة is used as a description of the phrase الحمد لله (like a maSdar for a verb). We can write collquial Arabic the way we want, I'm not commenting on the writing. What I say is about the pronunciation: The phrase al7amdulillah is pronounce 7amdella or 7amdillah, but not 7amdala.
     
  38. abdulwahid Senior Member

    Nordic
    The fact that it's found in classical dictionaries doesn't prove your point. The verb حمدل means "to pronounce the formula الحمد لله" So if I say حمدل زيد it means "Zayd said al-hamdu lillah" It doesn't mean "Zayd said حمدل"
     
  39. akhooha Senior Member

    English - USA
    Please allow me to make another attempt at clarification.
    Cherine:
    I never said that it was. I said that the phrase al-7amdila 3assalaama/3ala-s-salaama is used in colloquial. And yes, I'm well aware that حمدلة is used to represent the utterance of الحمد لله . And yes, I know that the word حمدلة is pronounced 7amdila in Egyptian colloquial. It also happens to be pronounced 7amdala in some other colloquials as well as in MSA.
    The links that I provided in post #30 ought to convince you that the phrase الحمدلة على السلامة is indeed a phrase that IS in use, and is not merely the representation of incomplete articulation. If it were the representation of incomplete articulation, one would expect to hear also the the phrase الحمدلة in place of الحمد لله ---- but (and let me make this clear) one does NOT hear that substitution. One hears الحمدلة only in the context of الحمدلة على السلامة .

    abdulwahid:
    Why would a reference from a classical source be evidence of colloquial usage?

    abdulwahid:
    Well, you'll get no argument from me there. Why you're under the impression that I'd think it would mean "Zayd said حمدل " is very puzzling to me, and just perhaps an indication that you have not understood very well what I've been saying.

    To recap:
    There are 2 phrases, and they do not substitute for each other. They say different things:
    الحمد لله على السلامة al7amdu lillah 3ala-s-salaama (Praise to god on your safety)
    الحمدلة على السلامة al7amdila 3ala-s-salaama (the saying of Praise to god on your safety).
    al-7amdila MEANS al-7amdila and is NOT a representation of imperfect speech. People don't seem to have trouble saying al-7amdu lillah (along with in shaa'a allah, probably the commonest and most repeated expression in everyday speech), and they don't have trouble saying al7amdu lillah 3ala-s-salaama, they just sometimes use a different phrase and that phrase is al7amdila 3ala-s-salaama.
     
  40. cherine

    cherine Moderator

    Alexandria, Egypt
    Arabic (Egypt).
    I hope we're not turning in circle here, but it seems we're failing to understand each other. Please let me try again.
    Not in my dialect (Egyptian Arabic). Could you tell us in which dialect this form is used?
    In Egypt we only have 7amdella (doubled laam and the kasra is pronounced like an "e" rather than an "i").
    Great. I think we agree on something. :)
    Here you confuse me again.
    In EA, it's a doubled laam and "e", not an "i". And حمدلة , written by an Egyptian, is just a "free" style writing or transcription of the pronounced word "7amdella", not the fuS7a word "7amdala".
    Again, please let us know in which dialect do people say al7amdila 3ala's-salama. And, again regarding my dialect, people almost never say al7amdu lillaah 3ala's-salaam (it sounds too fuS7a in the middle of a colloquial speech/situation). Yes, we don't have any problem pronouncing it correctly, but we only do that when we're speaking or reading fuS7a.
     
  41. akhooha Senior Member

    English - USA
    Well, I hate to say this, but I've heard this in Egyptian Arabic --- however, I MUST point out that I most frequently heard it the Sa3eed, in Luxor, to be specific. I didn't hear it that often in Cairo, but it was not totally absent either. Perhaps the Cairenes I heard using it had Sa3eedi roots.
    Apart from my own personal experience described above, a Palestinian friend of mine (born and raised in Ramallah) attests to the use of "al-7amdala 3ala-s-salaama" in his home town, and also attests that it is NOT a substitute for al-7amdu lillah 3ala-s-salaama, but rather a consciously chosen and consciously different way of expressing the same sentiments , but just not using the same words.
     
  42. cherine

    cherine Moderator

    Alexandria, Egypt
    Arabic (Egypt).
    Thanks for the clarification, Akhooha.
     
  43. akhooha Senior Member

    English - USA
    I suppose I could be accused of beating a dead horse here, but I just ran across an Adel Imam film (انا اللي قتلت الحنش)
    http://www.adelimamfilm.com/id-80-view-I-killed-the-hanach.html
    and the very first lines of the movie (begins at 1:45) are "al7amdila 3ala-s-salaama" --- it is being shouted out (twice) by someone off-screen. Maybe my ears are deceiving me, but it definitely sounds like al-7amdila to me and not 7amdella. The movie takes place in Alexandria, so I assume it's supposed to be a representation of an Alexandrian accent . . .
     
  44. إسكندراني

    إسكندراني Senior Member

    أرض الأنجل
    عربي (مصر)ـ | en (gb)
    He says 7amdilla not al7amdila...
     
  45. akhooha Senior Member

    English - USA
    My ears have deceived me ...
     
  46. إسكندراني

    إسكندراني Senior Member

    أرض الأنجل
    عربي (مصر)ـ | en (gb)
    It's us that don't speak clearly; every part of the world has its own phonetic system and it takes time to tap into it :)
     

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