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خبر - اختبر

Discussion in 'العربية (Arabic)' started by elroy, Nov 16, 2006.

  1. elroy

    elroy Motley mod

    Urbana-Champaign, IL
    Am. English, Pal. Arabic (See profile)
    But "to experience" is اختبر.
     
  2. Josh_ Senior Member

    the phrontistery
    U.S., English
    That was my Egyptian creeping in on my MSA.:)

    Sometimes I find it frustrating that the same word can have different meanings and/or connotations in colloquial and MSA.
     
  3. elroy

    elroy Motley mod

    Urbana-Champaign, IL
    Am. English, Pal. Arabic (See profile)
    That's interesting. In Palestinian Arabic, "khabbar" means "informed" and "ikhtabar" means "experienced" so it pretty much parallels MSA.
     
  4. Josh_ Senior Member

    the phrontistery
    U.S., English
    That was 'khabar(a)' without the shadda I was talking about, in both of my previous posts.
     
  5. elroy

    elroy Motley mod

    Urbana-Champaign, IL
    Am. English, Pal. Arabic (See profile)
    Either way - we use only "ikhtabar" for "experienced" in Palestinian Arabic.

    We don't have "khabar" as a verb, as far as I know.
     
  6. Josh_ Senior Member

    the phrontistery
    U.S., English
    In Egyptian 'khabar' means to experience, while 'ikhtabar' means to test or try out. It can also mean 'to have an experience', but with (unless I'm mistaken) a connotation of spirituality -- a spiritual experience.

    Anyway, these two words aside, I find many words that have different meanings in MSA and Egyptian. Of course I can't think of any off hand right now, but if I do I might start a thread for discussion -- something I have thought about frequently.
     
  7. cherine

    cherine Moderator

    Alexandria, Egypt
    Arabic (Egypt).
    Are you sure about this ?
    In Egyptian Arabic, and in fus7a, khabar means piece of news.
    A newer colloquial use of khabar in Egypt is "idea" : ما عنديش خبر ma3andeesh khabar= I have no idea.

    In fus7a, khabar 'sh-shay2a : 3alimahu = to know about it.
    "ikhtabar" = to test something, or to experience it, experience = khibra (in both fus7a and 3ammiyya).
     
  8. Josh_ Senior Member

    the phrontistery
    U.S., English
    I'm talking about the verb, not the noun. 'khabar' here is the singular masculine past tense.

    Egyptian:
    khabar, yikhbir

    MSA:
    Khabara, yakhburu

    Maybe it's not widely used, but it does exist.
     
  9. cherine

    cherine Moderator

    Alexandria, Egypt
    Arabic (Egypt).
    Really !!! I've never heard it in Egyptian 3ammeyya.
    Could you please tell me where did you learn/hear it ?
     
  10. Josh_ Senior Member

    the phrontistery
    U.S., English
    من غادة وأسرتها وكمان لقيت الكلمة في قواميس
     
  11. elroy

    elroy Motley mod

    Urbana-Champaign, IL
    Am. English, Pal. Arabic (See profile)
    I have to say, I'm just as surprised as Cherine (but that's not surprising, because "khabar" is not a verb in Palestinian Arabic).

    Could you give us an example sentence in which it would be used?

    I am not familiar with it in MSA either. :confused: What is it supposed to mean in MSA?
     
  12. abusaf Senior Member

    Stockholm
    Sweden
    ِAccording to Hans Wehr yakhbur means to experience
     
  13. elroy

    elroy Motley mod

    Urbana-Champaign, IL
    Am. English, Pal. Arabic (See profile)
    That's strange - so it means the same thing as اختبر? Are there other verbs where the فعل form and the افتعل form are identical in meaning?

    Either way, I've never come across خبر with this meaning. اختبر is much more common.
     
  14. Josh_ Senior Member

    the phrontistery
    U.S., English
    Here are examples of the way I would use the word:

    ذهبت إلى فلسطين وخبرت الحياة تحت الاحتلال
    I went to Palestine and experienced life under occupation.

    خبرت الوحدة
    She has experienced loneliness.

    Actually, there are a number of verbs that have the same meaning, or close to the same meaning in the form I فعل and form VIII افتعل forms, because these forms are, after all, related in that the form VIII is often the reflexive of form I or the so-called obedient مطاوع and expresses the resulting action (of course there are many exceptions). As usual, I can never think of any off hand, but if I do I will post them.

    Something else to consider: If the verb خبر didn't exist, where did the maSdar خبرة come from? It didn't come from اختبر whose maSdar is اختبار .

    Is there another more common meaning for the verb خبر ?
     
  15. elroy

    elroy Motley mod

    Urbana-Champaign, IL
    Am. English, Pal. Arabic (See profile)
    No. I was not familiar with the verb at all. (My "with this meaning" was supposed to show that I was referring to the verb and not the noun with the same spelling.)

    I am not claiming the verb does not exist. Indeed, there must be dozens of verbs in MSA that I am unfamiliar with. All I'm saying is that اختبر - which I would have used in both of your sentences - is more common.
     

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