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على + ضمير

Discussion in 'العربية (Arabic)' started by jmt356, Jan 17, 2013.

  1. jmt356 Senior Member

    Would it be possible to confirm that
    على + ي =
    عليّ

    If so, can anyone give the حركات of عليّ ?

    I believe it is عَلَيَّ.

    Or is it عَلَيِّ?
     
  2. إسكندراني

    إسكندراني Senior Member

    أرض الأنجل
    عربي (مصر)ـ | en (gb)
    It's عليَّ
     
  3. jmt356 Senior Member

    Is there any logic to this? The ي sound is a long version of ِ. So why would عليّ en in a َ?

    Would you also be able to confirm that:
    على + ها = عليها
     
  4. dkarjala Senior Member

    English - America
    Look at it in Latin script, and it might help. Basically the genitive of ana, -ii has two byforms: -ii and -ya. The latter is used when the pronoun suffix comes after 1) a long vowel or 2) the diphthongs ay-, aw- (and of course alif maqSuura, which is the case here). The reason is that the ancient form was actually -iya and was shortened to -iy/-ii over time, so the fatHa is actually 'coming back' when needed.

    An example of this after a long vowel would by the phrase "my parents". Using the dual of والد we drop the nuun and use the -ya ending since it would be unpronounceable otherwise. والدايَ i.e., you couldn't say *waalidaaii

    Yes, pronounced 'alayhaa.
     
  5. jmt356 Senior Member

    عليها is partially why I find عليَّ confusing. In Syria, the ه in عليها is not pronounced. So when I hear عليَّ, I think I am hearing عليها. That, plus I expect علي + ي to be عليِّ, which it is not.
     
  6. dkarjala Senior Member

    English - America
    I can understand that. Technically, the 'on me' form should be slightly different, in that there should be a shadda, but that isn't always the case.

    As for your last confusion, be careful: the ending meaning 'my/me (after prep.)' is not -yi but just -iy. So you should 'expect' 'alayiy عليي(no shadda) not 'alayyi. Either way, it is awkward as heck...
     

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