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فضلة مباح الأكل

Discussion in 'العربية (Arabic)' started by Zanjabeel, Mar 20, 2013.

  1. Zanjabeel

    Zanjabeel Junior Member

    English
    Dear members

    I have much difficulties understanding these lines

    فضلة مباح الأكل، من روث وبعر و بول وزبل دجاج وحمام م جميع الطيور، ما لم يستعمل مباح الأكل النجاسة. فإن تحقق أو ظنّ إستعماله لها أكلا أو شربا ففضلاته نجسة. ولا تنجس بمجرد الشك، فلا بد من التحقق أو الظن

    If anyone coult help me please

    Thanks in advance
     
  2. economistegypt2010

    economistegypt2010 Senior Member

    Egypt, مصر
    Arabic, العربية
    Can you please provide us with more context? I believe that there is a part before this sentence that would help us understanding it easily.
     
  3. Zanjabeel

    Zanjabeel Junior Member

    English
  4. economistegypt2010

    economistegypt2010 Senior Member

    Egypt, مصر
    Arabic, العربية
    ما فهمت كالتالي

    ان فضلات مباح الأكل "وهو الشئ الذي يباح لنا أكله كالدجاج, الحمام وغيرهما" تعتبر من الأعيان الطاهرة. طالما لما يأكل مباح الاكل (مثل الدجاج والحمام) طعام نجس. اما اذا تحقق لنا انه اكل طعام نجس او به نجاسة فهنا تكون فضلاته نجسة
    لا نعتبر فضلات مباح الأكل نجسة بالشك فلابد ان نتأكد ونتيقن من ذلك فالشك وحده غير كاف
     
  5. abdulwahid Senior Member

    Nordic
    My English is not good enough for me to give you an exact translation but here is the gist:
    Urine and feces from edible animals (i.e. animals that we are allowed to eat) are considered pure. But if if we have good reasons to think or if we know that these animals have been drinking or eating najasah then urine and feces from these animals are considered najis. If we are unsure, did they eat najasah or not, then the feces and urine from such animals are pure.

     
  6. إسكندراني

    إسكندراني Senior Member

    أرض الأنجل
    عربي (مصر)ـ | en (gb)
    Not totally right, I'm afraid abdulwahid:
    Approximately
    The remains of permissible foods, in urine or feces or droppings, whatever is not used [in the form of] permissible food is impure.
    If it is confirmed or thought that [something] has used it - eaten it or drank it - then its excrement is impure.
    But it is not impure if we only suspect it to be so; one has to confirm that it is or think that it is.
    The section in green is not totally clear to me but I think that's what it means.
    Islamic jurists distinguish between تحقيق confirmation , ظن thinking , شك suspecting as exemplified here.
     
  7. abdulwahid Senior Member

    Nordic
    Iskandari
    Im quite sure the passage is not about permissible food. The expression "Mubaah al-akl" does not refer to permissible food, but rather to animals that we are allowed to eat. The word fadlah is not refering to remains but rather to urine and feces from animals. This is quite clear when you read what follows "min rawth..." These are different types of feces from different animals. They are all considered pure in the Maliki school unless we know or have good reasons to think that the animals have been eating najasa. In that case the feces and urine will be considered impure.

    I havent seen the whole text but im almost 100 % sure that if we could see the rest of the chapter we would come to the a'yaan al-najisah and there it would say that feces and urine from animals that we aren't allowed to eat are najis.

    You can also see what was written by economistegypt2010 above.

     
  8. إسكندراني

    إسكندراني Senior Member

    أرض الأنجل
    عربي (مصر)ـ | en (gb)
    You're probably right. The excrement of those animals which are permissible to eat. But the rest of the translation I would still keep the same.
    Maybe ما لم يستعمل مباح الأكل means 'unless we use the actual animal that it's permissible to eat'?
     
  9. abdulwahid Senior Member

    Nordic
    I agree the rest of your translation is good except for the passage:
    ما لم يستعمل مباح الأكل النجاسة
    The passage is connected to
    أكلا أو شربا

    meaning "as long as the animal that is permissible to eat doesn't eat or drink something impure"
     
  10. إسكندراني

    إسكندراني Senior Member

    أرض الأنجل
    عربي (مصر)ـ | en (gb)
    So the sentence is an item within a list of pure things? I was always taught that bird droppings are pure.
     
  11. abdulwahid Senior Member

    Nordic
    It's taken from a book in Maliki fiqh
    http://img404.imageshack.us/img404/3583/fiqhmaliki.jpg

    Yes according to the Malikis bird droppings are pure. This is what is said in the text (unless they eat or drink things that are najis). But according to others, the Shafi'is for example, they are considered impure.
     
  12. Zanjabeel

    Zanjabeel Junior Member

    English
    Thank you all very much for your efforts
     
  13. cherine

    cherine Moderator

    Alexandria, Egypt
    Arabic (Egypt).
    I think the confusion comes from how you read this. I believe مباحُ الأكل is a فاعل here, and the verb is يَسْتعمِل in the active voice not the passive.

    I agree with Abdulwahid's translation in post # 5.
     

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