こんなにも

Discussion in '日本語 (Japanese)' started by kman1, Feb 21, 2013.

  1. kman1 Junior Member

    Hawai'i
    English USA
    こんなにもお心を配って下さってと思うことばかりでした。
    http://blog.livedoor.jp/euro_euro/archives/1725686.html

    I found both こんなにも and そんなにも using this dictionary:
    http://ejje.weblio.jp/

    - But I am not sure in what context do I use them both...?
    - Also, in regards to the original sentence I saw this grammar in, my friend translated the sentence as:
    I was just impressed so many times how thoughtful he/she was.

    But I do not see how he arrived at that translation. If his translation is correct, then I also do not understand where to place the stress in this sentence and I hope someone would record themselves saying the sentence so I can hear where to place the stress. (but I probably only need this if his translation is indeed correct)
     
  2. Schokolade Senior Member

    Japanese
    ●こんなにも >> こんなに, これほど, これほどまでに, so much, this much, like this
    ●お心を配って (the honorific prefix お + 心を配る)>> 気を配る, 配慮(はいりょ)する, 心配する, be concerned about~, have consideration for~, be worried about~~
    ●くださって (くださる, the honorific form of the subsidiary verb くれる)>> (everyone) did ~~ for me.
    ●ことばかりでした >> (~~すること)ばかり, (~~して)ばかり >> I only did~~, I always did~, I did~~many times
    (See #2「泣いてばかりいる」 http://ejje.weblio.jp/content/ばかり )

    It's 『こんなにもお心を配って下さって(「ありがたい/ありがとう」)。』と思うことばかりでした, ie. "I thought so many times 'Everyone's so much concerned about me,'" "I always thought 'Thanks everyone for worrying about me this much,'" so I think your friend's translation is... way better than mine :p

    Ew record my voice!? wwwww
    Here you go :p http://vocaroo.com/i/s00GstyEutCC
     
    Last edited: Feb 21, 2013
  3. kman1 Junior Member

    Hawai'i
    English USA
    1. Are you saying that these all mean the same thing and are totally interchangeable?

    2. The above is a bit confusing. Is this what you meant:

    ことばかりでした I only did~~
    (~~すること)ばかり I always did~~
    (~~して)ばかり I did~~many times

    Correct?

    3. Your translation and my friend’s translation have different meanings. Therefore, both of them can not be correct. And I believe your translation is correct! I say this because the stress pattern in your translation matches the Japanese, I believe. I don’t even need the recording now that I have the proper translation.

    There is a break in the Japanese to state what the speaker thought and this is reflected in the translation. In my friend’s translation this is not present which led to confusion about where to place the stress.

    4. Can you useこんなにも in a regular everyday sentence. I want to make sure I understand the context in which it is used just in case I choose to use it at some point.
     
  4. Schokolade Senior Member

    Japanese
    No, I meant to say the こんなにも can be replaced by こんなに, これほど, これほどまでに, but not necessarily the other way round, eg. こんなにたくさん食べられないよ(I can't eat this much) is alright but *こんなにたくさん食べられないよ sounds awkward.

    I showed "~~すること(=a verb+こと)" and "~~して(=a て-form verb)" can come right before ばかり. In either case it means "I only did~~" "I always did~~" etc.

    Yes I think you can use こんなにも in the spoken style as well as in the written style, only it sounds a bit more formal than こんなに. I think I myself tend to choose こんなに over こんなにも when I talk casually, eg;
    こんなに親切にしてもらっちゃって、ホントにありがとうね over こんなにも親切にしてもらっちゃって、ホントにありがとうね。
    こんなに辛[つら]いなんて思わなかった over こんなにも辛いなんて思わなかった。
    あの二人はどうしてこんなに仲が悪いの? over あの二人はどうしてこんなにも仲が悪いの?

    Whereas I tend to choose こんなにも when I write, especially when I want to sound politer and more formal. Eg;
    こんなにも親切にしていただき、お礼の言葉もありません。
    娘の死がこんなにも辛いものだとは、想像だにしておりませんでした。
    あのお二人は、なぜこんなにも仲が悪いのでしょうか。

    Jfr, http://ejje.weblio.jp/sentence/content/こんなにも (Just ignore the first example "こんなにもらっちゃって・・・")
     
    Last edited: Feb 23, 2013
  5. lrosa Senior Member

    Dublin
    English - Ireland
    I have nothing to add to Schokolade's excellent grammatical explanation and literal translation, but I can understand why Kman's friend might have veered away from a literal translation because it does become a very awkward English sentence. Considering the context of the sentence, to express the same kind of meaning in a more natural way we might say something like "I have been constantly overwhelmed by the amount of support/concern everyone has shown me."
     
  6. kman1 Junior Member

    Hawai'i
    English USA
    This does not make sense to me if they carry the same meaning. But what こんなにも means precisely still has not been listed . The only thing written so far was:
    こんなにも >> こんなに, これほど, これほどまでに, so much, this much, like this
     
  7. Schokolade Senior Member

    Japanese
    They carry similar meanings, can carry the same meaning depending on the context, and can translate to the same English phrase, but they are not totally interchangeable. For example, これほど has another meaning and usage than this, and cannot be replaced by the others in some context.

    I think こんなにも can literally translate to "so much (as this)" or "this much" in most cases, translation between two languages is rarely one to one, though.
     
  8. lrosa Senior Member

    Dublin
    English - Ireland
    I think "so much, this much, like this" is a perfectly adequate understanding of こんなにも. If I may take the liberty of translating Schokolade's example sentences:

    1. こんなにも親切にしていただき、お礼の言葉もありません。
    (More literal) For being so kind/this kind, there are no words to express my gratitude.
    (More natural) It is impossible to fully express my gratitude to you for being so kind to me.

    2. 娘の死がこんなにも辛いものだとは、想像だにしておりませんでした。
    (More literal) That the death of your daughter has been so/this painful, I couldn't have imagined. [I'm not sure of the precise meaning of 想像だにしておりませんでした]
    (More natural) I could never have imagined that your daughter's death could be so/this painful.

    3. あのお二人は、なぜこんなにも仲が悪いのでしょうか。
    (More literal) Those two, (I wonder) why do they get on this/so badly with one another?
    (More natural) I wonder why those two get on so badly with one another

    As for the difference between こんなにも and そんなにも, as with これ and それ, it is very roughly the distinction of "this" vs "that". I can only give my instinct which is that こんなにも makes sense when the speaker is talking about something that: (a) they experience personally, (b) they can see in front of them. I imagine そんなにも would be used when the speaker is talking about something that they haven't experienced personally and they have not seen/had direct contact with.

    For example I found on Google: なぜ日本人はすぐ自殺したがるのでしょうか?そんなにも辛い社会でしょうか? - Why do Japanese people immediately become suicidal? Is Japanese society that/so painful?

    And my own example (hopefully correct): こんなにも辛い社会なら自殺するのは自然です - If society is really this/so painful, it is natural to commit suicide.

    This is only one example, however, and is not sufficient to explain every instance of こんなにも/そんなにも.
     
  9. kman1 Junior Member

    Hawai'i
    English USA
    Thank you! I think I finally understand こんなにも now. I will save my question(s) about これほど, これほどまでに for another day when/if I encounter it interacting with my Japanese colleagues.
     

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