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ちかく, ちかい

Discussion in '日本語 (Japanese)' started by wguardian, Dec 1, 2012.

  1. wguardian New Member

    New York
    English
    Hi. Sorry to post in English, but that's how I will understand what I'm saying.

    I can't quite get how to use ちかく and ちかい  correctly. My tutor says you can't use ちかい before a noun, but only afterwards.
    This means that you use it to say "near something" rather than "a (nearby) place"--as far as I can tell. Since I wanted to say a "nearby hardware store" that seems to mean that I had to say ちかく (??) hardware store.

    I do understand the usage which goes, ドア の ちかく に (I hope) to say that something is near the door. And maybe that obviates the rest of my question, but I guess I'd like clarification.

    Is it ちかく の みせ?   and how do you use ちかい? and what part of speech is ちかい?

    why can't you use it before a noun? are there other so called adjectives that are similar in usage?

    I guess I could say, うちのちかくに みせ?

    Again, sorry for the beginner type question. My tutor (I'm studying on my own) seems to get very annoyed when I asked her-- and to find me unbearably obtuse--so I hope someone can just clear this up-- or point me to a good grammar site where questions like this are answered.

    thanks a lot,
     
  2. sasakky Junior Member

    Tokyo, Japan
    Japanese
    Hi wguardian, for the record, I am just a native speaker of Japanese and do not specialize in Japanese language. So please take my reply as a guide. First of all, you can use ちかい before a noun, because ちかい is a so-called 'い'adjective, an adjective ends with 'い', and 'ちかい みせ(store)' sounds as natural as 'ちかく の みせ' to me. But the former is more commonly used in spoken language than written one. There seems a lot of controversy in the usage of an 'い'adjective and a noun+particle for different contexts, since it depends on words and contexts if an 'い'adjective and a noun+particle can be interchangeably or properly used. That said, I would say it is more likely to be proper to use a noun+particle. I am afraid I cannot provide any specific grammatical rules or good grammar sites.
     
  3. Ocham Senior Member

    Tokyo
    Japanese
    I don't think there is a clear-cut explanation for grammatical usage. I'll give you as many samples as I can think of:
    近(chika)い店(mise)≦近(chika)くの店  *chikakuno is more often used
    もっと近い店≒もっと近くの店 *more nearby store
    海(umi)に近い町(machi) *a town near the sea
    海(umi)に近くの町:cross: 海の近くにある町:tick: *a town which is near the sea
    近い将来(shourai):tick: 近くの将来:cross: *(in) near future
    近い間柄(aidagara):tick: 近くの間柄:cross: *close relationship
    You've got to learn one by one.
     
    Last edited: Dec 3, 2012
  4. matsuyama Junior Member

    kyoto/京都
    Francais- France
    Hello, I am not a native speaker but I remember a bit my Japanese class.

    So with the examples Ocham used, I may say that grammatically 近(chika)い店(mise) and 近(chika)くの店 are both correct, but the second one is more used.
    To understand the examples with the sea, you have to make the subordinate clause a main clause. Therfore 海(umi)に近い町(machi) become 町が海に近い, it is the only correct form with those words. In this case, the forme of the 'い'adjective in the end of the phrase or before a noun is the same. Then you have, 海の近くにある町 which become 町が海の近くにある。So in front of the verbe ある you have to put the particle に and in front of the particle に an 'い'adjective become adjective~く.
    If you only think grammatically, you only have to think about the place of the adjective. If it is directly before a noun it is the form Adjective-い, before a particle it become adjective-く. And about your example うちのちかくに みせ you can't use the particle にif you don't have a verb. So you can say みせが うみのちかくに ある。 or うみのちかくに みせが ある。 both are correct but depending on the place of the subject and the adverbial phrase of place, the meaning is quite different. So the first one みせが うみのちかくに ある。 is the 'ordinary' order so there is no special emphasis but if you say うみのちかくに みせが ある。it means you want to do an emphasis on the subject which is the shop.

    But a language is not only grammar, so you also have to learn the way Japanese use to use words, and this is the most difficult part.

    Hope it helps.
     
  5. wguardian New Member

    New York
    English
    Hi,

    all of your responses were really helpful, and I will continue to review them. I appreciate each of the replies, especially since each one really does add insight from a different point of view.

    thanks a lot,

    wguardian
     

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