ばかり, だけ, を

Discussion in '日本語 (Japanese)' started by requiem0818, Jan 27, 2013.

  1. requiem0818 New Member

    English
    I am a little confused about the word order in this phrase: "don't eat only meat!"

    肉ばかりを食べないで!
    肉をばかり食べないで!

    肉だけを食べないで!
    肉をだけ食べないで!

    Since だけ and ばかり are particles I think 肉ばかり is right.

    Is it different if I use an adverb like に,たんに?
    Which of these are right?
    肉を単にたべないで
    肉単にをたべないで
    単に肉をたべないで

     
  2. frequency

    frequency Senior Member

    Tokyo, Japan
    Japanese
    Um..are you wondering why ばかり and だけ are inserted between 肉 and を, but 単に isn't?

    Online Japanese dictionary says that ばかり and だけ are 副助詞, which is a little different from adverb. That's why they can be inserted between 肉 and を?Maybe, I think so.
    But 単に is an adverb (副詞). So it modifies the verb 食べない; the form of 単に----食べない is better.
     
  3. requiem0818 New Member

    English
    I was just wondering which of these were correct. Are you saying that all of the sentences that I wrote are acceptable? I was under the impression that some of them are wrong, such as 肉をばかり食べないで! I wasn't sure whether the particle ばかり could come after the particle を or not.

    For adverbs, I have seen them written in a lot of different ways and wanted to make sure exactly what is right and what is wrong.
     
  4. frequency

    frequency Senior Member

    Tokyo, Japan
    Japanese
    Gomengomen.

    肉ばかりを食べないで!〇
    肉だけを食べないで!〇
    ---------
    肉を単にたべないで 〇
    単に肉をたべないで 〇

    Add a noun to ばかり and だけ, and let's make a set of 肉ばかり、肉だけ. And you can add a particle to these sets. e.g. この店は肉だけを売ります。ここには犬だけがいます。They are different from adjective, such as 赤い肉、固い肉。(See the difference in how they are jointed)

    But an adverb modifies the verb. 静かに食べる。ひとりで食べる。It cannot be inserted between 肉 and を. Adverb needs to 'stand out' to modify the verb. Let it work stand-alone.
     
  5. Schokolade Senior Member

    Japanese
    (...Hate to nitpick but I don't think 静かに and ひとりで are normally called adverbs... I think 静かに is normally called a na-adjective or 形容動詞, and ひとりで is normally regarded as a noun and a particle...)
     
    Last edited: Feb 4, 2013
  6. blutorange2 Junior Member

    Saxony
    German
    (More specifically, in Japanese, 静かに is styled the 連用形 of a 形容動詞 when using a it in the だ活動用. Functionally, they are used adverbially, though. I've also seen them being explained as adverbs, for example here http://www.guidetojapanese.org/adgobi.html.)
     
  7. Schokolade Senior Member

    Japanese
    (@blutorange Eww probably they are also taught 早く, 詳しく etc. as adverbs rather than as the conjugated(連用形) forms of i-adjectives, then? Maybe they're taught to think of 突出している, 突出した, ランニングしている, 満足した etc. before a noun as "an adjective," not as "a noun and a suru-verb", right? Hmm now I feel like I need to forget about the grammar I learned at senior high (~_~))
     
    Last edited: Feb 9, 2013

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