もしも__なら, __ない /and/ [Noun]だろうと

Discussion in '日本語 (Japanese)' started by hoshiboshi, Nov 5, 2013.

  1. hoshiboshi Junior Member

    English - US
    Song title: 不死鳥
    Artist: 世界の終わり

    Context: A man falls in love with an immortal robot, and wishes for immortality so he can always be with her. She does the opposite, and wishes that she will be able to die, because the present is only precious because it is temporary.

    Lyrics:

    もしもこの聖なる星が降る夜が最初から存在しなかったのなら
    あの真っ白な世界を朝とは呼ばないわ
    終わりの無いものなんて最初から始まりなんて無いの
    ...
    地獄だろうと君がいないのならば 僕は君と永遠になるから

    My translation:

    If the night when this holy star descended to the ground never existed from the beginning,
    then we wouldn't have called that pure white world "morning"!
    From the beginning, there have never been things that don't end
    ...
    I think it would be hell if you weren't there, so I will become immortal with you



    ~~
    I am having trouble with the sentence structures in this part, because they are a bit complicated for me. Here are the two grammar points I am most struggling with:

    1.) もしも [A] なかったのなら, ない
    In this sentence structure, there is a double negative - "If [A] had never happened, then [B] would not be so."
    Does that mean the speaker believes that [A] did happen? I think this sentence is trying to make a logical argument that is true, so [A] must have also happened.
    So, in the case of this translation - there was a night when the holy star descended to the ground, because we have the word "morning."

    2.) 地獄だろうと君がいないのならば
    What does だろうと mean if it's in the middle of a sentence?
    Is this just a shorter way of saying "君がいないのならば, すべては地獄になるだろうと思う"?


    Thank you for reading!
     
    Last edited: Nov 5, 2013
  2. Vaan Junior Member

    Japanisch
    I think 星が降る夜 means starry night(s).
    夜がなかったら、朝ということばもなかっただろう -- I guess that's true.:cool:

    2.
    (そこが)地獄だろうと、君がいないのならば
    I don't know what そこ implies here. Maybe the place he is going to??
     
  3. Tonky Senior Member

    Japanese

    It'll be the same as BだからAだ, that is to say, {あの真っ白な世界を}朝と呼んでいる→∴{この聖なる星が降る}夜が存在する.
    I guess it is saying a morning would not exist if a night did not exist, which is rephrased in the next line, "Things that do not end do not have a start = Everything that starts must end."


    I don't think so. I think it means 「地獄だろうと(そうでなかろうと、かまわない)」 "whether it is(would be) the hell or not" or "even if it is the hell", and I think "it" is "to acquire 永遠" that he is asking for, corresponding to 天国なんて "I don't care for heaven, but want 永遠" in the prior verse. (It does not matter if it is the hell or heaven for him.)
    I cannot quite say I fully understand the lyrics, but it is about one side, a human boy, asking for "forever" to stay with this robot forever and willing to accept all the miserable things it might bring, and the other side, the female? robot, convincing him "forever" is nothing good.

    I really cannot understand what the writer means by 僕は君と永遠になる, although I'm afraid it does not mean "to become immortal", unless "to become immortal" has a different meaning that I haven't learned.
     
    Last edited: Nov 7, 2013
  4. hoshiboshi Junior Member

    English - US
    Alright, thank you both!
    Both comments were very helpful, I appreciate it.

    It is a bit of a strange song, I admit! That's why I had difficulty understanding I think.
    I wonder if 僕は君と永遠になる is intended to not quite make sense? It almost reads as improper grammar to me, because it sounds like it's saying "to become eternity," which doesn't make sense in English either. But it could be I'm reading it wrong.
     
  5. Tonky Senior Member

    Japanese
    I too believe it was intentionally obscured to not make a distinct sense, in a way. The meaning of it is all up to each listener, I guess.
     

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