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却反而

Discussion in '中文+方言 (Chinese)' started by alejandro123, Feb 1, 2013.

  1. alejandro123 Junior Member

    Polish
    While browsing Baidu I came across this sentence: 为何iPad是中国制造,却反而在中国卖得最贵?What got my attention here is 却反而 used together. It is gramatically correct? and if used separately the meaning will be different?

    I came up with 2 sentences too.

    临近春天了,温度却反而下降了。
    昨晚他没学习,却反而通宵打游戏。
     
  2. xiaolijie

    xiaolijie MOD

    UK
    English (UK)
    Yes, it's quite common to see 却反而 together. The meaning may not be the same as 却 or 反而 but sometimes it is.
     
  3. zhg Senior Member

    Chinese
    却反而(或者是反而却)有两层意思。
    一层是"却" ,[为何iPad是中国制造,在中国卖的最贵?]
    这里用了却,说明说话人对于“在中国卖的最贵”这件事觉得很惊讶,出乎他的意料,是一个转折。
    还有一层是“反而”,[为何iPad是中国制造,反而在中国卖的最贵?]
    这里用了反而也是一个转折,但是除了转折,它还暗含了一个说话人觉得正确的逻辑,那就是:在中国制造的iPad理应在中国卖的便宜。(但是事实却和他所想的相反,所以用了反而
     
  4. rilaks New Member

    Mandarin
    这是非常常用的词,“却反而”和“却”和”反而“意思是一样的,只是放在一起用显然有更强调的意思。
    你造的两句句子都正确。
     
  5. BODYholic Senior Member

    Singapore
    Chinese Cantonese
    Your sentence is grammatical okay and can be readily understood by native speakers. but it sounds a tad imbalance in term of tone. I would say 昨晚他不但没学习,却反而通宵打电游。
     
  6. Skatinginbc

    Skatinginbc Senior Member

    Canada
    Mandarin 國語
    Hi, Alejandro, 不但...(却)反而 is an idiomatic expression like "not only...but also..." in English. Thus "昨晚他不但没学习,却反而通宵打电游" sounds more "balanced" (idiomatic) as Bodyholic said.
     
  7. 白隐寺 Junior Member

    chinese
    Hi Skatingbc. You are to make alejandro123 more confused by saying that. "不但。。反而” is not like "not only..but also" at all. We use 不但“ to emphasize that something should have been done but you didn't. And by saying "反而“ we are about to bring about another thing which should not logically been done or logically right."却反而“ is grammatically ok, but sometimes it sounds weird decided by different contexts or sentence structures.
     
  8. Skatinginbc

    Skatinginbc Senior Member

    Canada
    Mandarin 國語
    Did I? Sorry for my English then. I thought I meant: 不但...(却)反而 = not only...but also...
     
    Last edited: Feb 2, 2013
  9. 白隐寺 Junior Member

    chinese
    Fine. Let's assume its rightness. Then I am wondering how to make a sentence of "昨晚他不但没学习,却反而通宵打电游' in English by "not only...but also..."
     
  10. Skatinginbc

    Skatinginbc Senior Member

    Canada
    Mandarin 國語
    Not only (= 不但) did he fail to study last night but he also talked on the phone all night.
     
  11. 白隐寺 Junior Member

    chinese
    Awesome! I got you another sentence:“To understand economics you need to know notonly fundamentals but also its nuances” 。Will you say"要理解经济学,不但要明白其中的基本原则,反而要理解里面的细微差别?
     
  12. Skatinginbc

    Skatinginbc Senior Member

    Canada
    Mandarin 國語
    I said, "不但...(却)反而 is an idiomatic expression like "not only...but also." My purpose is to clarify Bodyholic's "a tad imbalance in term of tone". What is "tone"? Chinese can understand it, but non-native speakers may find it too abstract to comprehend. So I gave a similar English expression to emphasize its idiomatic nature.
    I wrote a post (#8) in response to your confusion about "like" and "not like" and, after a few minutes, decided to edit it (from like to "=") for fear of confusing you with more "like"s. I thought you said: "You are to make alejandro123 more confused by saying that 不但。。反而 is not like "not only..but also" at all." (One complete sentence). But now I finally got your point. You in fact said, "You are to make alejandro123 more confused by saying that. 不但。。反而 is not like "not only..but also" at all." (Two complete sentences).

    How amazing that a simple punctuation mark can make a world of difference!
     
    Last edited: Feb 2, 2013
  13. 白隐寺 Junior Member

    chinese
    Never mind. Let's just call it a day and not go any further discussion.By the way,I just asked a foreign friend whether it is weird to say "Not only (= 不但) did he fail to study last night but he also talked on the phone all night" and she said "Ummm it's a bit weird"
     
  14. xiaolijie

    xiaolijie MOD

    UK
    English (UK)
    I think Skatinginbc is wrong both in Chinese and in English.

    1. First, 却反而 does not require 不但 and introducing 不但 into the mix can only cause unnecessary confusion to learners. I think what Skatinginbc was thinking about is "不但...而且" = "Not only...but also".

    2. However, "Not only...but also" (不但...而且) typically lists two (logically) similar things: "she is not only beautiful but also clever", whereas with "却反而" we're saying "(But) instead of doing/being A, he does/ is B" (only one thing is involved: B):
    母亲的病,本来应该把我们一家人紧密地拉在一起,结果却反而像一堵墙把我们隔开了。
     
    Last edited: Feb 2, 2013
  15. alejandro123 Junior Member

    Polish
    昨晚他不但没学习,却反而通宵打游戏。

    I would translate this sentence like: Yesterday, instead of studying, he stayed up all night playing computer games.

    And I think it is a problem of direct translation from one language to another. As for structre mentioned by
    Skatinginbc 不但。。反而 I think it shoud have been added 不/没 after 不但 to make a sentence complete. In english "not only not" sounds weird so we should use different word. But in my native language or even in Russian we can use "double negative" with no sweat.


     
  16. 白隐寺 Junior Member

    chinese
    You can say that again! Seems your Chinese skills have come to somewhat high level.Congratulations!
     
  17. Skatinginbc

    Skatinginbc Senior Member

    Canada
    Mandarin 國語
    No. That’s not what I was thinking.
    [FONT=&amp]不但[/FONT]...[FONT=&amp]反而[/FONT] is an idiom. "Not only...but also" is an idiom as well. Hence I said, "[FONT=&amp]不但[/FONT]...([FONT=&amp]却[/FONT])[FONT=&amp]反而[/FONT] is an idiomatic expression like [FONT=&amp]not only...but also[/FONT]" (post #6).

    Full context: "I don't know what to do with my son. I told him to study harder and stay off the phone. As it turned out, [FONT=&amp]not only did he fail to study last night but he also talked on the phone all night.[/FONT][FONT=&amp]"[/FONT]
    Do you really think the above sentence is wrong?
     
  18. xiaolijie

    xiaolijie MOD

    UK
    English (UK)
    Skatinginbc, if you seriously want to know what "不但...反而" means or how to translate it, please see alejandro123's post at #15 ;)
     

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