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唄(呗)

Discussion in '中文+方言 (Chinese)' started by Ghabi, Aug 28, 2010.

  1. Ghabi

    Ghabi Moderator

    Cantonese (Hong Kong)
    Hello everyone.:) Is the sentence-ending particle 唄 used only in Mainland Mandarin? Is it also used in Taiwan and Singapore? In Mainland, is it associated to a particular region or is it used everywhere?
     
     
    : particle
  2. viajero_canjeado Senior Member

    Georgia
    English - Southeastern USA
    I haven't encountered it yet in Taiwan.. could be that the proper situation simply hasn't arisen yet. At any rate, it's not commonly used here.
     
  3. BODYholic Senior Member

    Singapore
    Chinese Cantonese
    This word is not formally taught in our schools. At least, not in the primary and secondary levels. I have also never heard any of our local friends utter this before.

    I believe I pick up this word from some Chinese programs/movies. But I only limit the usage to my China colleagues. My common usage is 有唄. :)
     
  4. xiaolijie

    xiaolijie MOD

    UK
    English (UK)
    I heard it quite often from a close friend, who's from North East of China. I've said "close friend" because it seems to be used only in informal speech.
     
  5. indigoduck Senior Member

    Canadian English
    I think this is purely a Beijing thing.

    In Canada, the mandarin speaking channel broadcasts a mix of Taiwanese and Mainland programs. As a result, sometimes you'll see the younger Taiwanese generation speakers use 唄 but only when for example referring to topics from Mainland China such as when talking about Peking Duck or something like that.

    In ordinary conversaton, it's not used and similar to the accent of "不會吧", 有吧阿阿~ is used instead.
     
  6. Mugi Senior Member

    Tokyo
    NZ English
    I've always thought of 唄 as being specifically Beijing dialect, although like many things that native Beijingers take as their own, it could well be in wider usage in NE China. You certainly hear it a lot in Beijing. Like many dialect words, I don't think it has an exact equivalent in standard Mandarin that captures the same sentiment.
     
  7. Dorothea01 Junior Member

    New York
    China-English
    There will be some local dialect words
     
  8. Yuca007 Senior Member

    German
    Hi everyone!

    I'd like to hear your insight on the usage of the particle 呗. Is it a common thing? When do you typically use it? Can you think of a rough way to translate it, possibly?

    Thanks!
     
  9. SuperXW Senior Member

    Beijing people use it quite often. I think it's like to add: "Just like that!" "No big deal!" "Of course!" "Or what?" at the end of the sentence.
    e.g.

    1. 你怕冷说明你缺锻炼呗! You feel cold, that means you lack exercise! (Of course it means that!)
    2. 收拾好了就快走呗! If you are ready, then go! (What are you waiting for?)

    "verb 就 verb 呗" is a common usage.
    e.g.
    1. 走就走呗,我才不怕! Go then (no big deal). I've nothing to fear.
    2. 走就走呗,急什么啊? Go (as normal as it should be), why so hurry?

    Note: I've heard people from some other province use the word differently. They use it like 吗. I've heard them saying 你来呗? instead of 你来吗?
     
  10. kubiwa New Member

    China
    Chinese
    don't worry,people across China can understand and often use the sentence-ending particle 唄
     
  11. Skatinginbc

    Skatinginbc Senior Member

    Canada
    Mandarin 國語
    唄 was originally coined to transcribe foreign terms (e.g., 《集韻》西域謂頌曰唄; 呗:黎语古老竖吹双簧气鸣乐器音译). The word in itself implies a non-Chinese origin. The absence of as a 助詞 in the literature of the Ming, Qing and early twenty century explains why it is rarely used in Taiwan Mandarin (even in artificial dialogues of 古装片). I had never heard of it until I watched Mainland-produced 清朝古装片 (e.g., [FONT=&amp]康熙微服私访记[/FONT]). I cannot help but associate 唄 with Manchu -bi "that is, it is, is, has" and -mbi "to be", which usually appear in the sentence-final position (e.g., boode mini ama bi "My father is at home"). It corresponds to the "be" (or "is") in "So be it" 这样 and "that's it/that's all" 罷了如此, 不過如此, or the 是 "be" in 要走便走了 (走就走呗) and 你怕冷说明你缺锻炼 (你怕冷说明你缺锻炼呗).
     
    Last edited: Dec 8, 2013
  12. Youngfun

    Youngfun Senior Member

    Pekino, Ĉinujo
    Chinese/Italian - bilingual
    I hear 呗 a lt in the North. But myself, I also feel comfortable to use it, because we have the same particle in my native dialects (/be/ in 青田话, /pei/ in 温州话)and could also be used in the putonghua spoken by my fellows.
     
  13. Skatinginbc

    Skatinginbc Senior Member

    Canada
    Mandarin 國語
    It is transcribed with the same character "唄", but does it mean the same as the one in the Beijing dialect? As far as I know, /pei/ in 温州话 corresponds to /pi/ in Mandarin (Pinyin bi, e.g., 比, 鄙, 斃, 彼), not /pei/ (Pinyin bei), and so the 温州话"唄" may not equate to 北京话"唄". 吳語“唄” seems to be a 謂詞完成體語氣詞, which usually follows a verb to indicate completion (like 了) and is etymologically associated with 罷 (http://www.somdom.com/bbs-read-run?tid=17975, http://baike.baidu.com/view/2902709.htm?fromTaglist). It can be phonologically traced to Middle Chinese 罷 *pjie̯ (《廣韻》甫靡切《集韻》補靡切, 音彼).
    河南方言 (中原雅音) also has a sentence-final "唄" /bai/, which also seems to have derived from 罷 (Vietnamese bãi, Middle Chinese *bʰai 薄蟹切), 用法同"吧".
     
    Last edited: Dec 11, 2013
  14. Youngfun

    Youngfun Senior Member

    Pekino, Ĉinujo
    Chinese/Italian - bilingual
    I think 语气词 don't follow the normal phonological evolution of the characters.
    At least myself, I use /be/ in 青田话 with the same meaning as 北京话. But I'm not native in 温州话 so I'm not sure if they also use it, so in my case it's 青田话's influence. Also, the young speech of 温州话 is developing in a merging of /e/ and /ei/, so I'm not sure if it's /pei/ or /pe/.

    I don't trust the links you provided. :D
    All serious dialect studious would transcribe that particle as 罢, not 呗.
    罢 is pronounced /ba/.
     

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