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心涼 (to gloat over)

Discussion in '中文+方言 (Chinese)' started by Ghabi, Dec 6, 2012.

  1. Ghabi

    Ghabi Moderator

    Cantonese (Hong Kong)
    Hi everyone! In Cantonese, when something bad happens to someone you hate, one may use the word 心涼 for such a feeling of Schadenfreude.

    Say, you're a big fan of Manchester United and hate their city rivals Manchester City very much, and it happens that City have just been thrashed by Arsenal, then you say, 尋晚見到曼城輸波,心都涼晒/認真心涼 "I'm really gloating over City's defeat last night!" How would you translate this sentence into Mandarin or into your dialect, please? Thank you!
     
    Last edited: Dec 6, 2012
  2. SuperXW Senior Member

    这个词书面的解释是「幸灾乐祸」,普通话里一般都直接说「高兴」「开心」,假如再加点咒骂的意思,就说「活该」「解气」「痛快」。「活该」相当于广东话中的「抵死」。「解气」就是「解放心中的怨气」的意思。

    比如你那个例子,类似的说法有:
    昨晚见到曼城输球,真开心啊!
    昨晚见到曼城输球,真解气啊!

    特别注意:普通话里也有「心凉」的说法,但相当于「心寒」,或广东话的「心淡」,是「不高兴」「非常失望」的意思。与广东话中的「心凉」意思几乎相反。
    假如你用普通话说:
    昨晚见到曼城输球,心都凉了。
    那表示你一定是曼城的球迷,对他们的表现失望。
     
    Last edited: Dec 6, 2012
  3. Lucia_zwl

    Lucia_zwl Senior Member

    For your context, the first expression that pops up into my mind is 幸灾乐祸. I just wanna add one more thing to SuperXW's post: 幸灾乐祸 is always used on others rather on oneself. e.g.
    - 不就是曼城输球了么,你看你幸灾乐祸的样子!
    - 哈哈,我就是觉得痛快/解气!
     
  4. Ghabi

    Ghabi Moderator

    Cantonese (Hong Kong)
    Thank you both for your insights! @SuperX, 解氣 sounds a very good translation!:thumbsup: And your explanation about the difference between 心涼 in M. and 心涼 in C. is excellent!:thumbsup::thumbsup:

    To me, the crucial difference between 幸災樂禍 and 心涼 is that the former is about the pleasure you derive from the suffering of people you don't hate or even don't know, while the latter is about a state of mind caused by seeing people you hate suffer.

    For example, a friend was walked in on by his girlfriend while he was making out with another girl, and was given a slap in the face by both girls, and we guys all laugh at his misfortune, and he complains, 得了吧,我已經夠慘了,別再幸災樂禍! In this case, none of us would say we feel 心涼, because we don't hate him and we're just winding him up for fun.

    So, while there's an element of vengeance in 心涼, it's wickedness for wickedness's sake in 幸災樂禍, so to speak, and is thus more sinister. Perhaps that's why Lucia feels that one should not use this when talking about oneself (although personally I can't see why not: I can imagine someone saying defiantly:我就是喜歡幸災樂禍!).
     
  5. Lucia_zwl

    Lucia_zwl Senior Member

    貌似这么说也可以哦。。。:p
     
  6. SuperXW Senior Member

    Indeed we won't really say 見到曼城輸球,我幸災樂禍。 Written in an article could be ok, but no one speaks like that.

    我最好奇的是為什麼廣東話裏叫做「心涼」?這種情緒和「心涼」有關係嗎?難道說本來這事讓你「火滾」?現在降溫了?
     
  7. Youngfun

    Youngfun Senior Member

    Pekino, Ĉinujo
    Chinese/Italian - bilingual
    SuperXW 的猜测很有意思,有点接近“泻火”的意思了。

    我刚好不懂Ghabi用的那个英语词(来自德语的?)Schadenfreude,所以到WR的词典里查了中文意思:幸灾乐祸、建立在别人痛苦之上的快乐。
    第一个你们刚好也说了。但是第二个翻译为那么长的句子,可能就说明中文普通话没有这么准确的概念。

    然后不知道gloat over什么意思,WR词典翻译为:沾沾自喜、得意洋洋。好像这两个词也不能表达Ghabi所说的意思。
     
  8. chlorophylle Senior Member

    Mandarin Chinese
    学到一个方言词.之前还真不知道"心凉"原来有开心的意思.
    这么一想起来, 似乎雪碧的广告语里有一句: 晶晶亮, 透心凉!
    不过既然是广东话来嘅, 所以也许由于南方天气总是较湿热, 发生一件开心事, 堪比通体舒畅, 神清气爽. "凉"在这种天气之下,比温暖什么的都更令人向往.

    而相反, 较内陆的, 说话心凉,意近"心寒". 或者发生一件令人失望失落的事, 可以说"我的心巴凉巴凉的", 意即是心灰意冷.

    但也有反例. 比如内陆也有"凉快"的表达法. 比如一件事, 终于如了你的意, 有人会问你"这下心里总该凉快了吧?" 不过有时这种说法也用在一种比较特殊的情境下. 比如说两个人在争抢一杯果汁, 都想喝, 不肯与对方分享. 结果在争抢的过程中, 果汁撒了一地, 谁也没喝着. 这时旁观的人也可以幽幽地甩过去一句:凉快了吧?(意思就是说,抢吧抢吧,这下好了吧,满意了吧?)其实是在说反话,等于是说"活该!"
     
  9. Youngfun

    Youngfun Senior Member

    Pekino, Ĉinujo
    Chinese/Italian - bilingual
    在北方“凉快”的用法不太一样,一般是说:“滚!一边去!到凉快的地方去!”。
     
  10. Ghabi

    Ghabi Moderator

    Cantonese (Hong Kong)
    Erm ... does it really okay to you in writing? It doesn't sound idiomatic to me whether in writing or in speaking. Perhaps it's just me.:confused:
    In English one can "gloat over" one's own fortune, as well as others' misfortune, so yes, I think 沾沾自喜 can be a translation in the right context.:)
    Yes, we use 透心凉 quite frequently.:thumbsup: Presumably that slogan sounds weird to Northern speaker?
    That's possible.:)
    This is like "爽了吧", right?

    Another example about the usage of 心涼: Your girlfriend has met another guy and dumped you (God forbid! But these things happen ... all the time:(), and it turns out that she gets dumped by that guy too very soon and, as luck would have it, you bump into her in the street and she's like: 係呀,我俾人飛咗喇,你宜家心涼啦!(=是呀,我給甩了,這下你樂了吧!)
     
  11. Youngfun

    Youngfun Senior Member

    Pekino, Ĉinujo
    Chinese/Italian - bilingual
    Thanks for the explanation!

    If you mean the Cantonese meaning of "Northern", yes. :D
    I interpreted 凉 in the literal meaning, as soft drinks are supposed to be drunk cold.

    I also thought about 爽。I thought it meant "cold", and then for extension it meant "pleasant". Actually it's the other way around, its primary meaning is "pleasant", then it gets attached to 凉 and forms 凉爽。

    Nice example. That would similar to English "happy now?". And I would say 活该 to the girl. :D
    By the way, here 宜家 means IKEA. :D
     
  12. SuperXW Senior Member

    "我幸灾乐祸" could be ok in a literature, when the writter is describing his feeling... "每次见到曼联输球,我黯然神伤;见到曼城输球,我幸灾乐祸……"

    透心凉 was also used as Sprite's Mandarin slogan. 透心凉 is different to 心凉 in Mandarin. 透心凉 simply means 非常凉爽. Some northern people may add 儿-color saying 透心儿凉.
     

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