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有人 / 某人涉嫌 (香港用法)

Discussion in '中文+方言 (Chinese)' started by SuperXW, Jul 9, 2013.

  1. SuperXW Senior Member

    各位,在香港報章傳媒中可以經常見到這樣的講法:

    http://hk.news.yahoo.com/曳仔玩火累同學命危-223506266.html
    命危少年的母親稱有人是「全邨最曳」,愁訴兒子受人所累……(通讀全文,我認為該名母親的原話很可能是說「阿辰是全邨最曳」。)
    兩人在天柏路天水圍體育館附近遇上,現場消息稱,當時有人圍着廁格內瓦製洗手盆,一手將天拿水倒在洗手盆邊,另一手拿着打火機點燃,迅即形成如「火龍」般形狀,涎仔則站在旁駐足觀看……
    (整篇報導都無其他嫌疑人。「有人」是指「兩人」中的一個,即「阿辰」。)
    兩人涉嫌縱火被捕。有人昨初步承認帶頭玩火,並稱事發前曾在家中及屋邨後樓梯「練習」……
    (整篇報導只有兩個涉案人,記者將事情描述得相當詳細,「有人」仍是指「阿辰」。)

    按照香港傳媒習慣,這些「有人」都是指「嫌犯」或「涉嫌肇事者」,在報導中也多次出現,即:
    曳仔/百厭少年/其中一名被捕的十三歲少年/叫「阿辰」的趙

    但若以內地中文的標準,香港報導的「有人」用法是不正確的。以下是內地的一般理解:
    命危少年的母親稱有人是「全邨最曳」 :arrow: 命危少年的母親稱:有個人是「全邨最曳」,但沒有說是誰。
    兩人在天柏路天水圍體育館附近遇上,現場消息稱,當時有人圍着廁格內瓦製洗手盆…… :arrow: 另有第三者出現,並非兩人中的一員。

    我個人不是太支持香港的這種用法。這大概是怕報導不準確被投訴,而將人物稱謂換成了「有人」。但從字面上說:
    1. 報導並沒用真人全名; 2. 「xx稱」已經是引述他方消息; 3. 在句中加上「據稱」「涉嫌」等詞即可表示不確定。
    所以我不覺得有必要使用「有人」的說法。用「有人」容易造成問題:1. 其他地區的誤解; 2. 如果嫌犯超過兩人,「有人」無法講清人物關係。
    何況在這篇報導中,也直接出現了「阿辰」的行為。

    阿辰突脫手將樽跌墮涎仔腳前……

    這句不知為何,又不用「有人」了。

    我提出這些問題,希望探討:
    1. 「有人」這種用法的起源? 2.其他地區是否接受這種用法? 3.法律文件是否接受此用法?
     
    Last edited: Jul 10, 2013
  2. Daffodil100

    Daffodil100 Senior Member

    Chinese
    1. 不知道。

    2. 不确定。“有人”的使用貌似在普通话里也没有不妥之处。但是这篇报道的风格,不太象大陆普通话的表达方式。如:愁诉、危命少年(的母亲)。这篇报导的主要受众是讲粤语人士,在表达方式上用粤语的我觉得无可厚非吧。在香港的媒体上不是还有“老窦” 、“睇”之类的吗?

    3. 法律文件是指
    - 哪地的法律文件?

    -官方的,还是个人的?什么用途的法律文件

    我个人认为,只要不受质疑,是真实的表述,就接受。如果个人的法律文件中的用词不当,造成漏洞。如遗产,到时引起利害方、抗辩方的质疑,受损的就是用这些措词的人。如果没人质疑,这当然是合法的。
     
    Last edited: Jul 9, 2013
  3. Ghabi

    Ghabi Moderator

    Cantonese (Hong Kong)
    Hello! It's interesting you asked about this, SuperX, as I'd wondered about it myself. I think the usage is rather recent, and when I first read/heard it I thought the writer/broadcaster was just trying to be funny or sarcastic, because, as you know, we usually use this 有人 structure (at least in Cantonese) for innuendo purpose, for example,

    Friend A: 點解你哋最終去唔成旅行?
    Your wife: 有人失魂到去到機場先發覺唔記得帶passport囉! (casting an angry side-glance to you:mad:)
    You (the guilty party)::eek:......

    and it's weird to come across this way of talk in non-tabloid news. As you say above, there are other ways to shirk the responsibility for false reporting, and I think it remains to be seen whether this usage will become the norm in Hong Kong journalism, although it's pretty common these days.
     
  4. BODYholic Senior Member

    Singapore
    Chinese Cantonese
    In Singapore, news broadcasters do use "有人" but mainly for the purpose of 泛指. So the above sentence make sense to us, if the mother was making a generic statement.
    And of course, "有人" may also serve the purpose of "影射", like the example given by Ghabi but you rarely see this usage in formal presentations (e.g. TV news).

    If this "有人" refers to the "兩人涉嫌縱火被捕", I would say many of us (from where I am) are likely to be misled by this report. Typically, we would assume things like "疑犯昨初步承認帶頭玩火".

    Having said that, I must say it is grammatically ok to write "有人昨初步承認帶頭玩火". My take is that the reporter might have some leads that "someone" came clean with the authority, but the writer could not ascertain "who", the 2 caught suspects or someone else who secretly turned himself/herself in at a later stage.
     
  5. SuperXW Senior Member

    That's the problem. I don't believe 有人 in this article is 泛指. I often see it referring to specific 嫌疑人 on Hong Kong news.
    Your understanding is my understanding. But the frequency of 有人 being used in local media has shown me that, the reporter, and even the readers, would clearly know "who" is this "someone", not "someone else" for sure, they just use the word to avoid naming the guy directly...
     
  6. SuperXW Senior Member

    前兩條同意你的觀點。第三條,因為我也不知道各地的法律文件是什麼樣的,所以哪種都可以討論。如我原貼中所說,這種用法雖然能讓報導者逃避責任,卻會造成意義上的不明確,所以我覺得,應該是傳媒記者的用法;如果正式文件上也這樣不清不楚的話,反而麻煩。
     
    Last edited: Jul 10, 2013
  7. codynlaw Junior Member

    Chinese-Cantonese
    1. 「有人」這種用法的起源? <-- 也許是因為怕被人告誹謗, 所以不指明道姓?
     
  8. SuperXW Senior Member

    「阿辰」只是花名,本身也沒有指名道姓,這樣也能被告誹謗嗎……
     
    Last edited: Jul 11, 2013
  9. Youngfun

    Youngfun Senior Member

    Pekino, Ĉinujo
    Chinese/Italian - bilingual
    兩人涉嫌縱火被捕。有人昨初步承認帶頭玩火 <- 如果没有楼主的解释的话,我还会以为“有人”指的是第三者,而非前面那句的“两人”。

    顺便说一下,斜体的汉子真心难看……
     
  10. YangMuye Senior Member

    Chinese - Mandarin
    这里“有人”的语感是接近“某个人”“某些人”“某(个/些)人”还是“那个人”“那两人”“那(个/两)人”?

    日语里用“存在的人”表示“某人”。(ある人・有る人・在る人・或る人,四个词汉字不同,发音完全一样,最后一个为训读古汉语用的写法。)
    或许是相同的思维。
     

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