私の経験では

Discussion in '日本語 (Japanese)' started by JapanForever, Jan 1, 2013.

  1. JapanForever Senior Member

    French
    Hi there,
    I would like to know: I read some forumsto be familiarized with Japanese but I've a problem with this part. What is basically about? Is it someone who didn't borrow some money or something?

    私の経験では友人と喧嘩した際お金を借りてるのを思い出し、返そうとすると「返さなくていい」と言われました。
    喧嘩とお金の話は別なんだから素直に受け取れよ。って思います。借りてる私が言うのもなんですが…

    あくまで性格ですから普段のさりげない行動や言動でもそう思うことも多々あるでしょうね。
    その人の考え方を知っていれば、どうゆうタイミングでひねくれるかわかってきたりもしますしね。

    Thanks for your answers.
     
  2. frequency

    frequency Senior Member

    Tokyo, Japan
    Japanese
    When arguing with my friend, I recalled I had borrowed money from him/her. (In the middle of the argument), I tried to pay the money back but the friend said ''You need not to pay it back".

    The speaker had picked up the wallet from the pocket to pay back in the middle of the argument..but the friend said 'you need not to pay back'.

    ~to be continued
     
  3. JapanForever Senior Member

    French
    I see...so the frien didn't want him to pay back as they argued?
     
  4. frequency

    frequency Senior Member

    Tokyo, Japan
    Japanese
    Good. This is twofold. The friend truly didn't need the money paid back. Or, this is more likely, the friend wanted to say like, 'This is not the timing you pay it back, because we're arguing now', as you mentioned.
     
  5. frequency

    frequency Senior Member

    Tokyo, Japan
    Japanese
    I (usually) think (for example, in the case described in the first paragraph): receive honestly, because arguing and borrowing money are different things.

    In the first paragraph the speaker is talking about the past, but in the second paragraph he suddenly comes up with 思います(思う), which is a base form and now free from the tense. This 思います implies that 'I'm kind of a person who usually wants sb to honestly receive sth when it's offered'.

    This is a little different from 'I thought that the friend should have received the money then, because...'
     
  6. JapanForever Senior Member

    French
    So if I well understood, the character wanted to give back the money to the friend who didn't want the money now and he said he wanted him to receive it obediently?
     
  7. frequency

    frequency Senior Member

    Tokyo, Japan
    Japanese
    Ah~ no. The speaker usually wants somebody to receive something without being upset or twisted, even though the speaker and he/she are arguing. This is the main topic.
    But the actual case in the past (the 1st paragraph) is just an example, and the speaker is using it in order to lead the main topic. Understandable? A little complicated, though. Therefore, we don't know if the friend didn't want the money then or the speaker wanted him to receive it obediently. The speaker tried paying back, but the friend said no-this is what happened in the past.
     
  8. JapanForever Senior Member

    French
    So he just took it as example?
     
  9. frequency

    frequency Senior Member

    Tokyo, Japan
    Japanese
    Yesyes, an example but the fact in his past. OK, let's go next.

    借りてる私が言うのもなんですが…
    This is difficult. なんですが・・expresses hesitation. I'm sorry to say/I can't say/may not be good to say (about his attitude) because I borrowed money (from him).

    In the next paragraphs, the topic goes one step forward!
     
  10. JapanForever Senior Member

    French
    So he cant explain his attitude to not wanting him to pay the money back obediently to him?
     
  11. frequency

    frequency Senior Member

    Tokyo, Japan
    Japanese
    Before that, this Japanese isn't very good..あくまで性格ですから普段のさりげない行動や言動でもそう思うことも多々あるでしょうね。

    あくまで個人の性格がありますから、普段のさりげない行動や言動において、性格がそのようにさせてしまうことが多々あるでしょうね。What's そのようにさせてしまう about?
    The speaker is talking about his friend's 'twisted' attitude (in the 1st paragraph). Okay? Can I go ahead, JapanForever?
     
  12. frequency

    frequency Senior Member

    Tokyo, Japan
    Japanese
    No. 'I can't blame his attitude because I borrowed money from him, thus I bothered him'.
     
  13. JapanForever Senior Member

    French
    So he doesn't blame him because he borrowed money from him, much to his annoyance?
     
  14. frequency

    frequency Senior Member

    Tokyo, Japan
    Japanese
    Yes that's right. Don't you think so? Are you usually in a stronger position than the person whom you borrowed money?
     
  15. JapanForever Senior Member

    French
    So as he wanted to pay him back, he didn't want obediently and he understood his attitude...
     
  16. frequency

    frequency Senior Member

    Tokyo, Japan
    Japanese
    Yes. The friend was twisted, not peaceful with the speaker then. And that's right, the speaker understood his twisted attitude!
     
  17. JapanForever Senior Member

    French
    I'm not certain to understand why he's "twisted" in this case as he doesn't him to pay back while they are arguing...
     
  18. frequency

    frequency Senior Member

    Tokyo, Japan
    Japanese
    Okay. You want to say that you understand the friend's attitude: saying no to money-back while arguing is not a twisted thing.

    The speaker says 'receive honestly', in other words, be honestly. Because argument and money are different. This is his personality. But the friend said no; therefore, when the speaker sees the friend, the friend may look twisted to the speaker. Don't you think?
     
  19. JapanForever Senior Member

    French
    He can looks twisted because he stubbornly refuses the money while they are arguing? Hm...kinda strange indeed
     
  20. frequency

    frequency Senior Member

    Tokyo, Japan
    Japanese
    If I(frequency) were the friend, I wouldn't have received, either. Some say they would have received. It all depends on personality, atmosphere, the level of anger in an argument, and how much money you have in the wallet.
     
  21. JapanForever Senior Member

    French
    Personally if it was a little argument I would have received despite all...However in a more important one, I would have maybe refused too.
     
  22. frequency

    frequency Senior Member

    Tokyo, Japan
    Japanese
    And that he quickly picked up the wallet to pay back suggests us the amount of the money probably wasn't very big.

    The speaker, next, mentions about personality as well as we talked. As I told before, this Japanese isn't good very much and could be like this-あくまでも個人の性格がありますから、普段のさりげない行動や言動において、友人がそうだったように性格が影響することが多々あるでしょうね。

    Each has his/her own personality―in usual and casual action, speech and behaviour, I suppose that the personality often affects us, as it affected the friend to feel and act that way.

    The speaker supposes that the friend didn't receive the money because his personality matters.
     
  23. JapanForever Senior Member

    French
    So he refused the money because they argued (mainly)?
     
  24. frequency

    frequency Senior Member

    Tokyo, Japan
    Japanese
    Maybe. Well, the friend might have been a little proud, short-tempered to receive the money in the middle of the argument. His pride didn't allow receiving it, or yes the argument could made him angry, maybe. The speaker says that our personalities is reflected in our actions.
     

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