綻ぶ or 綻ばす

Discussion in '日本語 (Japanese)' started by monokuro, Nov 8, 2012.

  1. monokuro New Member

    English
    [FONT=Verdana, Arial, Tahoma, Calibri, Geneva, sans-serif]Hello,

    I'd like some help understanding the question below:

    "
    ようやく、お前のためだけに蕾を綻ばせようとしていた花なのに。。。いつか食い散らかされるぞ"[/FONT]


    I've seen this sentence translated as
    1."Finally the flower tried to make itself bloom for you, even though it
    will be devoured someday.."
    2."Finally the flower was made to bloom for your sake only, but it would be devoured someday"
    3."Finally the flower bloomed for you only, but it will wither and be devoured someday"

    Context: this sentence is spoken to A by B (who is said to be A's dark self) in a dream. The flower is boy A's lover/ex-lover that he abandoned for some secret plan he is carrying out. It is unclear whether boy A manipulated her or not. A's lover as of right now is still in love with another man (while A is still in love with a woman that died a long time ago), but due to circumstances, she couldn't be with that guy and was staying with A since she was engaged to A. Shortly after, she tried to make it work with A by means of a start over, before A left her to go down a secret dark path.


    [FONT=Helvetica, Arial, Bitstream Vera Sans, Verdana, sans-serif]I can see there is this causative for the verb "bloom" here, and its in a verb form that I can't find concrete info about anywhere. All I can find is 綻びる which is intrasitive. Judging from the verb conjugation, it should be like 綻ぶ orばす, but I'm not sure they're transitive verbs or not. If it is ばす, it's translated into "can try to bloom" which sounds pretty weird to me. Also, this sentence seems quite ambiguous about who exactly is the one making the flower bloom, it could either be the flower itself, or this "お前”(boy A).

    If I have to choose out of all 3 options up there, I think 1 makes sense. Please help me figure out which verb is the right one and what would be the most likely translation for this sentence. Thank you very much.
    [/FONT]
     
  2. noriaki Senior Member

    Japanese
    Hello,

    Does this translation match the context?

    And at long last the flower (she) tried to make itself bloom (try to make herself the best partner) only for you... (Why did you abandon her...)
    It (She) will be devoured (be lead away) someday. (Because you abandoned her.)

    http://dictionary.goo.ne.jp/leaf/jn2/203745/m0u/%E7%B6%BB%E3%81%B6/

    According to the dictionary above, 綻ぶ and 綻びる are the same.
    They are intrasitive verbs.
    綻ばす is a transitive verb.

    Thanks.
     
  3. monokuro New Member

    English
    Thank you for your quick reply.

    Yes, this translation is a very reasonable interpretation . I'd also like to know if its possible for someone to try to make the flower bloom, at least grammatically wise? Also, wouldn't the causative form for 綻ばす be 綻ばさせる? 綻ばせよう looks like a potential + volitional combo of 綻ばす to me, and it really doesn't make much sense to me given this context.
     
    Last edited: Nov 8, 2012
  4. noriaki Senior Member

    Japanese
    Hello,

    First of all, this sentence makes sense only when we know the flower represent a human.
    If "the flower" in the sentence means actually a flower, I don't also make any sense.
    This is the reason why I made up for some hidden meanings.

    This is a literary technique called 擬人法 (GIJIN-HOU), and it treats a object as if a human being.
    A literal translation of GIJIN-HOU is a personification, but I'm not sure whether it is the same in your country or not.

    Next, we don't say 綻ばさせる but 綻ばせる is a correct form.
    According to a dictionary, 綻ばす and 綻ばせる are completely the same.
    http://dictionary.goo.ne.jp/leaf/jn2/203742/m0u/綻ばせる/

    But because I'm not familiar with how foreign people learn Japanese grammer, I'm not sure what some parts of your question mean.
    - I'm not sure whether a transitive verb and a causative form are the same or not.
    - I don't know what does "potential + volitional combo" mean.

    Thanks.
     
  5. lammn

    lammn Senior Member

    Hong Kong
    Chinese - Cantonese
    Both 綻ばす and 綻ばせる are the causative forms of the verb 綻ぶ.
    綻ばす is by itself the causative form. So there is no need to further conjugate to obtain the "causative form".

    Perhaps you are not familiar with this kind of conjugation.
    There are actually 2 ways of conjugating godan verbs into the causative forms:
    1. The first way is to add "aseru" to the verb stem. (horokob + aseru → horokobaseru)
    2. The second way is to add "asu" to the verb stem. (horokob + asu → horokobasu)

    I would say 綻ばせようとしていた comes from 綻ばせようとする, which is derived from 綻ばせる + ようとする, or causative + volitional form.
    I don't think it is related to the potential form.

    Hope that helps.
     
  6. monokuro New Member

    English
    I think I was a bit confused since Noriaki said 綻ばす is the unconjugated form of the verb used in this sentence and that it is a transitive verb and 綻ぶ is intransitive. If 綻ぶ is the verb used in this sentence, I know both causative forms for it. My problem is not knowing for sure which one is the original verb. Thank you very much for all the help, Nariaki and Lammn. This has definitely cleared up any confusion left.
     

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