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自分の行いと、この世に存在することの価値

Discussion in '日本語 (Japanese)' started by JapanForever, Nov 12, 2012.

  1. JapanForever Senior Member

    French
    http://imgur.com/AuseE
    Hi there,
    Here's my problem, I don't know what the character want to mean in this extract. As that's from a visual, that's a bit complicated to me to translate this correctly. Does the character want to show in order to live in this world, there was a price? Or is it the contrary (the character reflects about his thoughts)? I don't know if the context of the next sentence clarifies about the first sentence.
    Can you help me please?
    Thanks for your answers.
     
  2. matsuyama Junior Member

    kyoto/京都
    Francais- France
    Hi JapanForever,

    It is about :自分の行いと、この世に存在することの価値を考え、結論を出す____。そして妹の存在をよく考えたとき、これほどまで恵まれた運命の許に、生まれたことはないと考えるまでになっていた。
    Right ? you want to translate it in English or French?

    In french: J'ai réfléchi à la valeur de mes actes et à celle de l'existence ;/et, voici ma conclusion______. Puis, lorsque je réfléchissais à l'existence de ma (petite) soeur, je finis par me dire qu'il n'était pas besoin de naître en étant autant béni (favorisé) par le destin.
    In english: I thought about the price of my actions and the value of existence, and there is my conclusion______. Then, when I was thinking about the existence of my (little) sister, I thought that there is no need to be born so blessed by destiny.

    Of course, it depends of the context, but it was what I understood.

    Hope it helps
     
    Last edited: Nov 13, 2012
  3. JapanForever Senior Member

    French
    Thanks for having translating it in english. However I've a question: is it character who isn't born so blessed by fate or that's his sister?
    There is the sequel if you want.
    http://imgur.com/Q0x9t
     
  4. noriaki Senior Member

    Japanese
    Hello,

    The character thought he was blessed with his fate or his destiny.

    As I mentioned before in the other thread, this article is written with the character's perspective.

    Thanks.
     
    Last edited: Nov 13, 2012
  5. JapanForever Senior Member

    French
    Thanks but sorry I don't understand. So according to the text and context does the character compare him to his sister?
     
    Last edited: Nov 13, 2012
  6. noriaki Senior Member

    Japanese
    No, he doesn't compare.

    (Expressed) Then, when I was thinking about the existence of my (little) sister,
    (Hidden) Actually I did live with my sister.
    (Expressed) I thought that there is no need to be born so blessed by destiny.
    (Hidden) Because my destiny gave me a life with my sister.

    Are those help you?
     
  7. JapanForever Senior Member

    French
    So what character thinks about his sister according to your sentence?
     
  8. noriaki Senior Member

    Japanese
    Sorry, his thinking for his sister doesn't expressed anyware.
    It should be a reader's imagination.
     
    Last edited: Nov 13, 2012
  9. JapanForever Senior Member

    French
    But his fate was blessed to him as he had his sister?
     
  10. noriaki Senior Member

    Japanese
    Yes, that's right.
     
  11. JapanForever Senior Member

    French
    however according to matsuyuma translation he said there was no need to be born so blessed by destiny...is itn't negative?
     
  12. noriaki Senior Member

    Japanese
    Ah, okay, let's try to say differently.
    The original sentence is trying to say positive (good) thing using a negative sentence.

    これほどまで恵まれた運命の許に、生まれたことはないと考えるまでになっていた。
    Let's get rid of some small things.
    -> He became to think that, there were no other destiny such a blessed one.
    -> He became to think that, his destiny was the most blessed one.
     
  13. JapanForever Senior Member

    French
    Hm. I see now mate. So his sister (if I belive the context) was someone dear to him (in feelings or because of price of her existence?)
     
  14. noriaki Senior Member

    Japanese
    It seems like so.

    Of course it doesn't clearly expressed, and it should be a reader's imagination,
    but you can imagine her as his deer.
     
  15. JapanForever Senior Member

    French
    as his deer in feeling sense?
     
  16. noriaki Senior Member

    Japanese
    Sorry, what does "in feeling sense" in your question mean?
    Or could you say differently?
     
  17. JapanForever Senior Member

    French
    dear to her (feelings way or because of the price of her existence for example)?
     
  18. noriaki Senior Member

    Japanese
    Sorry, I don't still understand.
    But I guess this isn't expressed anyware.
     
  19. JapanForever Senior Member

    French
    what did you mean by "his deer" earlier?
     
  20. noriaki Senior Member

    Japanese
    Oh sorry,

    Your question was, "His sister was someone dear to him?"
    And my answer was, "You can imagin that, his sister was someone dear to him."

    But the topic of these sentences is just "He thought his destiny with his sister was so good."
    His feelings for his sister doesn't described anyware. It's just a reader's imagination.
     
  21. JapanForever Senior Member

    French
    I see. By the way it is recurring to say that a destiny is good? (sorry for this stupid question -_-)
     
  22. noriaki Senior Member

    Japanese
    Sorry, I don't understand your question.
    What does "it" in your sentence mean?

    1. "Saying that a destiny is good" is recurring.
    2. (Something in the article) is recurring to say that a destiny is good.
    3. (Something in this thread) is recurring to say that a destiny is good.
     
  23. JapanForever Senior Member

    French
    The first actually.
     
  24. frequency

    frequency Senior Member

    Tokyo, Japan
    Japanese
    Considering his deed* and the value of living the life, he's going to reach the conclusion.
    When considering his sister ('s existence), he has come to think how the successful/blessed destiny he was born under.
    *Or, what he's been doing ever or behaviour. I guess you know what I mean.

    He says that he's much luckier than his sister.

    I cut redundancy for better clarity. This Japanese sentence has これまでに that suggests the level/degree. If you want to know about this, I don't mind continuing to post..do you have any more question?
     
  25. JapanForever Senior Member

    French
    Hm. That's very different from noriaki's translation. The visual is kinda litterary.
    I would like to understand more if it's okay for you
     
  26. matsuyama Junior Member

    kyoto/京都
    Francais- France
    I think, thanks to frequency explanation and using the other link Japanforever sent me (http://imgur.com/FiXY4), that I should translate like below:

    Original phrase:自分の行いと、この世に存在することの価値を考え、結論を出す____そして妹の存在をよく考えたとき、これほどまで恵まれた運命の許に、生まれたことはないと考えるまでになっていた。__ さあ妹のために、よくおぼえておこう。

    I thought about my actions and the value of existence, and my conclusion is- Considering my sister, I began to thought how blessed by fate I was- I have to remember it, for her.
     
  27. frequency

    frequency Senior Member

    Tokyo, Japan
    Japanese
    Are you a Japanese learner? My explanation of これまでに, which works like such, so, and how, will be a matter of grammar or structure. But do you still want to know about that? Explaining これまでに does not affect on the details the text has.
    If you just want to know what this sentence says, it is as mentioned in my preceding post.

    matsuyama, would you help him in French?
     
  28. JapanForever Senior Member

    French
    Yes I would like about これまでに ^^ By the way, what is よくおぼえておこう form?
    And yes matsuyama helps me.
     
  29. frequency

    frequency Senior Member

    Tokyo, Japan
    Japanese
    OK..this text can be like this as well; He has come to think that there's no such a successful/blessed destiny-and he was born with it.

    Using 'such' requires you have already known how his destiny is lucky, so the preceding texts must have mentioned about it. But in Japanese, this case is not always. 'Such' is sometimes used like 'so' (very). These are just what I wanted to say!

    よくおぼえておこう、 is not the form of 'Let's ~'. This is probably that he's talking to and positively giving an idea to himself. So 'I should, I have to, I want to..'
     
  30. JapanForever Senior Member

    French
    Okay. So if I well understood, the character who thought that he had such a blessed destiny ended up by thinking he was wrong by thinking to his sister? (that's what I understood)

    Thanks. So he was the one who had idea to remember according to the context?
     
  31. frequency

    frequency Senior Member

    Tokyo, Japan
    Japanese
    Really. OK..He never thinks he's wrong. Rather, he enjoys and appreciates his luck. I think his younger sister is luckless compared to him.

    さあ妹のために、よくおぼえておこう。
    Well, I should remember well for my sister.

    And things he wants to remember will follow after this text. This text works to introduce them. Otherwise, it is useless.
     
  32. JapanForever Senior Member

    French
    Yes after he remember things and learnt them in his head in the following sentences. So does it work?
     
  33. frequency

    frequency Senior Member

    Tokyo, Japan
    Japanese
    Yesyes. Is this a text from online game? You can find the texts following after that, can't you?
     
  34. JapanForever Senior Member

    French
  35. frequency

    frequency Senior Member

    Tokyo, Japan
    Japanese
    Benedict is putting a sheep's tongue into his mouth in order to express the taste―starts memorising its delicate taste, by raising* languages, numbers, temperatures in the morning and the night, and even his old memories.

    *using, picking up, bringing up
    He used languages, etc, to memorise the taste.
     
  36. frequency

    frequency Senior Member

    Tokyo, Japan
    Japanese
    Well but is this a thing that he wants to remember/memorise well? For his sister, the taste of a sheep's tongue is important? Maybe yes.
     
  37. JapanForever Senior Member

    French
    Yes if we saw the context of the story yes that's rather important...Thanks ^^
     

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