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A knight's cuirass, a horse's harness

Discussion in 'All Languages' started by ThomasK, Sep 2, 2012.

  1. ThomasK Senior Member

    (near) Kortrijk, Belgium
    Belgium, Dutch
    In Dutch a 'harnas' is a cuirass, a knight's suit of armour (if that is correct), but the English 'harness' in only some kind of horse (..) gear. How do you translate them in your language? Synonyms welcome !

    Dutch:
    - harnas, pantser perhaps, with a maliënkolder below (coat of mail)
    - tuig (gear), maybe breidel/ toom (see bridle in English), juk (yoke), but I associate that with the horse's head mainly

    I like the meaning of 'to harness' : bringing under control and direct the force of [water] -- It reminds me of our kanaliseren, to 'canal-ise', which refers to bringing under control - and implies using it fruitfully sometimes (like sublimation in psychology, I think).
     
    Last edited: Sep 2, 2012
  2. apmoy70 Senior Member

    Greek
    Hi TK,

    In Greek:

    Cuirass: In general, it's «θώρακας» /'θorakas/ (masc.) and formally, «θώραξ» /'θoraks/ (masc.) --> corslet, coat of mail, scale armour as front-and-back-piece fastened together; a Classical masculine noun «θώραξ» 'tʰōrāks, Ionian «θώρηξ» 'tʰōrēks (masc), Aeolic «θόῤῥαξ» 'tʰŏrrhāks (masc.), of unknown origin.
    When referring specifically to Medieval Knights, it's «πανοπλία» /pano'pli.a/ (fem.) --> panoply, complete suit of armour; compound, adv. and prefix «πᾶν-» pān --> all, whole + neut. noun «ὅπλον» 'hŏplŏn («όπλο» /'oplo/ in MG) --> implements of war, hoplite's (i.e ancient Greek heavy infantry) shield, in Modern Greek, weapon, gun; from the Classical verb «ἕπω» hĕpō --> to busy oneself with, to be about (PIE base *sep-, to concern, cf. Skt. सपति (sapati), to caress, serve; Lat. sepelīre, to bury, inter, burn on funeral pyre).
    Harness:
    A/ «Σαγή» /sa'ʝi/ (fem.) --> horse harness, from the Classical fem. noun «σαγὴ», sa'gē --> a man's pack, baggage, horse harness, from the Classical verb «σάττω» 'sāttō --> to pack, fill quite full (with obscure etymology).
    B/ «Εξάρτυση» /e'ksartisi/ (fem.) --> equipment, gear, kit, from the Classical fem. noun «ἐξάρτυσις», ĕ'ksărtūsīs --> equipment, harness; compound, prefix and preposition «ἐκ», ĕk (which becomes «ἐξ», ĕks, when the next word begins with a vowel) --> out of, from + Classical verb «ἀρτύω», ăr'tūō --> to arrange, prepare, make ready (in MG, «αρταίνω» /ar'teno/ --> to season food, flavour a dish); PIE base *h₂er-, to complete, fit together, join (cognate with Skt. ऋतु (rtuh), fixed order; Lat. ars; Eng. art).
     
  3. ThomasK Senior Member

    (near) Kortrijk, Belgium
    Belgium, Dutch
    Ha, now I now understand that our thorax/ chest is just the coat of armour of our lungs. ;-) /Saji/ might be connected with 'saddle...
     
  4. apmoy70 Senior Member

    Greek
    Indeed it is, saddle is «σάγμα» /'saɣma/ (neut.) which derives from «σαγή»
     
  5. ThomasK Senior Member

    (near) Kortrijk, Belgium
    Belgium, Dutch
    Could you imagine something like 'to harness' in Greek, Apmoy?
     
  6. apmoy70 Senior Member

    Greek
    Verb «ζεύω» /'zevo/ which derives from the Classical verb «ζεύγνυμι», 'zeugnūmĭ --> to harness, saddle and briddle, to fasten on chariot (PIE base *yeu-g-, joining cognate with Lat. jungere; Fr. joindre; Eng. yoke)
     
  7. ThomasK Senior Member

    (near) Kortrijk, Belgium
    Belgium, Dutch
    Which as a matter of fact establishes another interesting link, with 'harness'. Thanks !
     
  8. mataripis Senior Member

    Tagalog: Baluti= Shield
     
  9. ThomasK Senior Member

    (near) Kortrijk, Belgium
    Belgium, Dutch
    Fine, but a cuirass covers about the whole body (clothes it in iron), much more than a shield.

    SPA arreos mpl (of horse); arnés (m) (for safety, of parachute)
    FRA
    harnais vs. cuirasse
    SWE utrustning vs. pansar
     
    Last edited: Sep 6, 2012
  10. mataripis Senior Member

    I think the word "shield"/Baluti can have the meanings 1.) protection for whole or part of the body. Baluti has root word "Ba-lot" meaning enclosed or covered with material that act as protection.
     
  11. rusita preciosa

    rusita preciosa Modus forendi

    USA (Φιλαδέλφεια)
    Russian (Moscow)
    In Russian there are a couple of terms for each, but they are not related:

    Arnour / suit of armour / cuirass (I had to look up the latter):
    - доспехи [dospehi - "h' as in "house")] - has the root спех that means "on time" / "prosper" (the word успех [uspeh] means "success", the verb успеть [uspet'] means "to be on time"). It may be a cognate of "espérer".
    -
    латы /laty/ - patches

    Harness / tack:
    - уп
    ряжь [upriaj] has the root пряж/пряг [priaj/priag] meaning squeeze/stretch/tension/weave. It may be a cognate of "spring"
    - сбруя [sbruya] from Polish zbroja(?) "munition".
     
  12. ThomasK Senior Member

    (near) Kortrijk, Belgium
    Belgium, Dutch
    Thanks, Rusita - but could you illustrate zbroja/sbruya with a picture, maybe also the patches? Thanks!
     
  13. AutumnOwl

    AutumnOwl Senior Member

    Sweden
    Swedish - Sweden, Finnish
    Utrustning means equipment, gear. It you are talking about armour of a knight it's (riddar)rustning, from rusta = make ready (you have a similar word in Dutch). Knight in Swedish is riddare, from rida = to ride. Even if pansar is used for cuirass, harnesk is/was more uses, as well as kyrass, and a cavalry solider dress in a harnesk is known as a kyrassiär.

    A horse's harness is seldon, from sele, a word going back to a sanskrit word meaning rope, or to bind; and don meaning gear or tackle.
     
  14. ThomasK Senior Member

    (near) Kortrijk, Belgium
    Belgium, Dutch
    I wonder how you use harnesk then in different ways. Seldon reminds me of saddle/ zadel, but it is broader, I guess. Or is it not? (Maybe you could check the picture I refer to in #9)
     
    Last edited: Sep 10, 2012
  15. LilianaB Senior Member

    US New York
    Lithuanian
    Hi, Thomas. Isn't cuirass just the front part of the armor to cover the knight's chest, not the whole suit of armor? Anyhow, a knight in Lithuanian is riteris. The whole armor -- would be riterių šarvai. The armor for the horse is arklių šarvai. (the metal that protects the horse -- head cover and other elements). Harness -- is pakinktai. These are just the leather elements to tie the horse -- it does not have that much to do with armor -- in Lithuanian.

    Zbroja in Polish, by the way is armor -- both for the knight - mostly in fact, possibly for the horse as well.
     
    Last edited: Sep 10, 2012
  16. ThomasK Senior Member

    (near) Kortrijk, Belgium
    Belgium, Dutch
    Good Lord, you might be right: then it is only part of the armour, more like the breastplate. So you do use the same term for both horse and knight, sarvai, but only as a protection, I understand. Would you have an idea of the etymology of sarvai and of pakinktai?
     
  17. LilianaB Senior Member

    US New York
    Lithuanian
    Šarvai is a general term for armor (all elements included). Kirasa is just the torso part. Šarvai comes most likely from sargas -- warden. Pakinktai -- perhaps from kinkuoti - nod, make nod perhaps, make obey. Kamanos is also used in the sense of the leather straps for the jaw -- it might be a cognate of harness, I am not sure.
     
    Last edited: Sep 10, 2012
  18. rusita preciosa

    rusita preciosa Modus forendi

    USA (Φιλαδέλφεια)
    Russian (Moscow)
    I'm not sure how to describe it with a picture.

    сбруя [sbruya] is the full horse tack, from the bit to the saddle (or harness that attaches horse to the cart/carriage). I have to admit I know the terminology of horse tack much better in English than in Russian:eek:.

    латы /laty/ literally means patches, quite honestly before this thread I've never gave that word a thought. I imagine the patches are the the metal plates some suits of armour are made of (as opposed to the ones that are "knitted" from the metal line). Words that have the same root are латать [latat'] - to patch and заплатка [zaplatka] - a (mostly fabric) patch.
     
  19. LilianaB Senior Member

    US New York
    Lithuanian

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