a se trezi, a se scula, a se deştepta

Discussion in 'Română (Romanian)' started by linguistics_nut, Apr 17, 2013.

  1. linguistics_nut Junior Member

    Madison, WI
    English - U.S.
    Hello!

    Unfortunately, I don't speak Rumanian but I am wondering what the difference is between the uses of these three verbs for 'wake up' or any other meaning they are used to represent?

    Thank you!
     
  2. AnnaJDT Senior Member

    Bucharest
    Romanian
    Hello linguistics_nut!

    "A se trezi" has the same meaning as "a se scula" (din somn/from one's sleep). The determinant "din somn" is not compulsory, but can be inferred from the context:
    "M-am sculat la 5 din cauza zgomotului" (I woke up at 5 because of the noise) - this means I woke up from my sleep.
    I can also say: "M-am sculat de pe scaun" - I "got up" from the chair ("to get up after sitting down"). However, I can't say: "M-am trezit/deşteptat de pe scaun".

    "A se deştepta" is more literary. It also means "to wake up": our national anthem is called "Deșteaptă-te române" ("Awake, Romanian" - from your lethargycal sleep). But this word has other hues as well.
    "A se deştepta" is derived from the adjective "deştept" associated with "smart" and "awoken". "M-am deşteptat" means "I awoke" but can also be understood as "I wised up" or "I had a revelation".


    So they are not perfect synonyms, they have secondary meanings that set them apart.
     
    Last edited: Apr 18, 2013
  3. farscape mod-errare humanum est

    Ottawa, Canada
    Romanian
    I have a slightly different view regarding these transitive and reflexive verbs. I can closely associated them with their English counterparts:

    a se trezi/deştepta -> to wake up
    a se scula -> to get up

    In short, one wakes up first (se trezeşte/deşteaptă) then gets up (se scoală).

    Then there are the other meanings which Anna has already alluded to.

    Later,
    .
     
  4. linguistics_nut Junior Member

    Madison, WI
    English - U.S.
    Thank you for such a great response!
     
  5. irinet

    irinet Senior Member

    Bucharest
    Romanian
    Hello,

    'A se deștepta' is not in use with the meaning of 'to wake up'. These verbs are partial synonyms.
    'To wake up' is 'a (se) trezi'. We may often say 'm-am sculat devreme azi' = ' I woke up early today', but the Romanian translation is colloquial.
     
  6. farscape mod-errare humanum est

    Ottawa, Canada
    Romanian
    Huh?! I'm not sure I follow you, irinet :confused: It's the first definition in the dictionary:

    "DEȘTEPTÁ, deștépt, vb. I. 1. Refl. și tranz. A (se) trezi din somn..."

    What term do they use in the army for the wake up call? Deşteptarea :)

    Later,
    .
     
    Last edited: Apr 25, 2013
  7. linguistics_nut Junior Member

    Madison, WI
    English - U.S.
    Given that there seem to be 2 verbs for 'wake up', one of Romance origin (deştepta) and one of Slavic origin (trezi), it wouldn't surprise me if in some places only one of them is used. That would explain the discrepancies and what AnnaJDT said about deştepta sounding more literary. Words tend to sound more literary when the fall out of use in the spoken language. I'm trying to learn about what happens when two synonyms diverge, like these two.

    And does anyone happen to know the origin of trezi?
     
  8. farscape mod-errare humanum est

    Ottawa, Canada
    Romanian
    You mean other than the Slavic origin you already pointed out (trĕzviti)? - see the dictionary here.

    Later,
     
  9. linguistics_nut Junior Member

    Madison, WI
    English - U.S.
    Yes, I just meant more specific information. I wasn't sure which Slavic language Romanian got it from. Did/Does it mean simply "wake up" in that language? Etc.
     
  10. robbie_SWE

    robbie_SWE Senior Member

    Sweden
    Trilingual: Swedish, Romanian & English
    Unfortunately it doesn't state which specific language it was borrowed from (probably Bulgarian or possibly Old Church Slavonic). However, it does say that the Slavic "trĭezviti sen" originally meant "to not be drunk" or "awake from inebriation"...weird and funny at the same time :D


    Robbie
     
  11. linguistics_nut Junior Member

    Madison, WI
    English - U.S.
    Interesting. Thank you!
     
  12. irinet

    irinet Senior Member

    Bucharest
    Romanian
    Both verbs "a se deştepta" and "a se scula" come from aromână and megleno-română.
     
  13. irinet

    irinet Senior Member

    Bucharest
    Romanian
    Hello again,
    I say that the difference consists in the usage (intensive vs rare) and the discourse type or register.
    1. As Anna pointed, "a se trezi" is academic. As I underlined, "a se scula" is colloquial.
    2. Finally, "a se deştepta" is of rare usage. Farscape very well suggested, of military domain "deşteptarea", a kind of waking- up command, which is a noun not a verb. As Anna exemplified, you can see it in our national anthem too, with a metaphorical use ("awake" from a lethargy). One can notice the imperative nuance.
    Now, Farscape is right when he is saying that these 3 verbs mean 'to wake up' (1st meaning, the denotative) when you check in the dictionary.
    But I do not think that lexicography explains the usage. I, for one, have not heard anyone saying: "M-am deşteptat devreme azi" or better "Când te-ai deşteptat azi?". It would be exceedingly odd, don't you think?
    But I hear "M-am sculat/trezit devreme azi, "Când te-ai sculat/trezit azi?".
    I cannot argue that we still have "ceas deşteptător", coming from the verb "a se deştepta". I must say it's old or would it be right to say 'folksy'?! Now, we have 'alarmă' / 'sonerie' la ceas - 'alarm clock', or you name it. On the other hand, we also have "a se deştepta cu noaptea-n cap/a se trezi cu noaptea-n cap" (to wake up at dawn)
    To conclude, the distinction I see would be that "a se deştepta" (a very interesting, and old verb with a great semantic development) is mostly used in its connotative meanings rather than denotational like its counterparts "a se trezi/scula".
    later,
     
    Last edited: Sep 12, 2013

Share This Page