Adjetivos Comparativos

Discussion in 'Spanish-English Grammar / Gramática Español-Inglés' started by Sarah Orozco, Mar 15, 2005.

  1. Sarah Orozco New Member

    Mexico, Spanish
    Hola!
    Bien, se supone que los adjetivos "cortos" forman su comparativo con la terminación -er, p. e. clean, cleaner, como en "the dress is cleaner than the skirt."
    ¿Qué ocurre con "fun" como adjetivo? Entiendo que debo decir, p. e. "baseball is more fun than soccer." ¿Es correcto? ¿O hay otra manera más apropiada de formar esa oración?
    Espero leer algo al respecto.
    Saludos a todos y que estén bien.
     
  2. Carlos Martínez Riera

    Carlos Martínez Riera Senior Member

    Valencia
    Spain / Spanish
    fun ---> funnier

    Carlos
     
  3. gotitadeleche Senior Member

    Texas, U.S.A.
    U.S.A. English
    Fun-->more fun-->most fun is the correct way to form the comparatives of fun (divertido). Funnier comes from funny (gracioso). Funny-->funnier-->funniest.
     
  4. lauranazario

    lauranazario Moderatrix

    Puerto Rico
    Puerto Rico/Español & English
    Transfiero esta consulta sobre adjetivos al foro de Gramática.

    Saludos,
    LN
     
  5. ~PiCHi~

    ~PiCHi~ Senior Member

    Mexico (Spanish)
    Según recuerdo, cuando tienes palabras con tres sílabas o más tienes que usar "more ____ than", pero como "fun" es monosílaba no aplica a la regla. Me parece que debe ser una excepción...
     
  6. jmx

    jmx Senior Member

    Barcelona
    Spain / incorrect Spanish
    Pero, ¿ fun es nombre o adjetivo ?

    But, fun is noun or adjective ?
     
  7. gotitadeleche Senior Member

    Texas, U.S.A.
    U.S.A. English

    Both.

    We had a lot of fun = noun.

    That was a fun party = adjective.

    That was the most fun party I have ever been to = adjective.
     
  8. Artrella Banned

    BA
    ARGENTINA Sp/Eng


    Hola Sarah!!

    En tu primera oración "fun" es un sustantivo, por lo tanto la traducción sería
    "El baseball es más diversión que el fútbol"

    Si vos querés decir que es "más divertido que" , tienes que usar "funnier than"

    But not always "short" adjectives are used in this way. Por ejemplo "common".
    La manera correcta de decirlo es "commoner than" pero es más frecuente decir "more common" and "most common".

    Espero que esto te ayude. SAludos, Nil :)
     
  9. gotitadeleche Senior Member

    Texas, U.S.A.
    U.S.A. English

    Art, in Sarah's first sentence "fun" is a predicate adjective, not a noun. As I explained in my previous post fun = divirtido and funnier comes from funny = gracioso o chistoso. Más divertido que = more fun than
     
  10. Artrella Banned

    BA
    ARGENTINA Sp/Eng

    Sorry Gotita, could you explain this again? I cannot see the difference!! :eek:
    What do you mean by "predicate adjective"? Do you mean and adjective used predicatively and not attributively?
    Help!! Please Gotita!! :p (Droplet in English, isn't it?)
     
  11. gotitadeleche Senior Member

    Texas, U.S.A.
    U.S.A. English
    Art, I am leaving right now. I will get back and answer you tomorrow.
    Bye
    the Droplet
     
  12. Parreño Junior Member

    USA, English and Spanish
    Funnier does not modify "fun", it modifies "funny", which is a completely different concept.

    Fun---> more fun ----> most fun .... here "fun" means "divertido".

    Funny ----> funnier ----> funniest ..."funny" means "cómico/gracioso".

    My cousin in Spain always says "I had a lot of funny" or "Did you have funny?" to mean "Me divertí mucho" o "¿Te has divertido?" And I always have to remind him that to an English speaker "It was funny" means "Era gracioso" and not "era divertido".
     
  13. charmedboi82 Senior Member

    USA, English
    La frase "baseball is more fun than soccer.", si, es correcto. Asi se forman las frases con 'fun'. No tengo ningun problema con 'is funner than' pero mucha gente si. Lo que pasa es que a veces no es posible averiguar cual sea (?), adjetivo o sustantivo. Por supuesto, como la escribiste es la manera mas aceptada y es bien formal ('funner' seria la opcion menos aceptada y menos formal).

    Recomiendo que hagas una busqueda en Google, hay un articulo en el sitio de random house que explica lo que pasa con 'fun'. Disculpame por no anadir un enlace al sitio pero no deja que lo haga (colocar un enlace en mi mensaje)).


    Si ese enlace no satiface tu curiosidad, que hagas una busqueda en Google para cuanto (hay mucho) se ha escrito acerca del asunto.

    Por favor, corrigeme los errores salvo los que tratan de falta de acentos escritos asi que nunca me ha costado saber donde se ponen.
     
  14. gotitadeleche Senior Member

    Texas, U.S.A.
    U.S.A. English
    Art, here is some information about predicate adjectives and predicate nominatives.

    Lesson 153 - Parts of the Sentence - Adjectives
    ADJECTIVES modify or affect the meaning of nouns and pronouns and tell us which, whose, what kind, and how many about the nouns or pronouns they modify. They come before the noun or pronoun they modify except for the predicate adjective which comes after a linking verb and modifies the subject.

    Examples of a predicate adjective: The big bear is brown. The brown bear was big. Brown and big come after the linking verbs is and was and modify the subject bear.


    The Grammar Book presents it a little differently. It puts both predicate adjectives and predicate nominatives under the term subject complements:

    The linking verb is followed by another type of helping element, the subject complement. Subject complements rename or describe the subjects of sentences. In other words, they complement the subjects.

    Many of these complements are NOUNS, pronouns, or other nominals that rename or provide additional information about the subject of the sentence. They always follow linking verbs. A less contemporary term for a noun, pronoun, or other nominal used as a subject complement is predicative nominative.

    He is the boss.
    Nancy is the winner.
    This is she.
    My friends are they.

    In the first and second example, the subject complements boss and winner explain the subjects he and Nancy. It tells what they are. In the third and fourth examples she and they rename the subjects and identify who they are.

    Other subject complements are ADJECTIVES that modify the subjects of sentences. They follow linking verbs. A less contemporary term for an adjective used as a subject complement is predicate adjective.

    My coworkers are friendly.
    This story is exciting.

    In the first example, the subject complement friendly modifies the subject coworkers. In the second example, the subject complement exciting modifies the subject story.


    Descriptive adjectives are divided into two groups depending on how they are connected to the noun they modify.

    A predicate adjective is connected to the noun it describes, always the subject of the sentence, by linking verbs such as to be, to feel, to look, to smell.

    The house looks small.

    An attributive adjective is connected directly to the noun it describes and always precedes it.

    The good children were praised.
    The family lives in a small house.

    Art, the main thing I want you to understand is the difference between fun and funny. Fun = divertido (more fun, most fun). Funny = gracioso, cómico (funnier, funniest).
    El baseball es más divertido que el fútbol.

    I hope that cleared up your questions and did not confuse you more. Really, your English is excellent, I wish my Spanish were as good as your English.
     
  15. Artrella Banned

    BA
    ARGENTINA Sp/Eng

    Ahora sí Droplet :p !!! El problema fue que yo entendía que fun era diversión y no "divertido". Entonces cómo se dice "diversión"??

    Lo de los predicativos, y el uso de los adjetivos en forma predicativa y atributiva lo tengo claro, y vos me lo confirmás con esta explicación tan completa y clara.
    Si podés mandame por PM el nombre del libro donde está todo esto, sí?

    UN millón de gracias Gotita!!! Me encanta la gramática, de cualquier idioma!!
    :eek: :D :p
     
  16. charmedboi82 Senior Member

    USA, English
    Fun = diversion
    fun = divertido
    funny = divertido, etc.

    Lo que pasa es que 'fun' puede funcionar como adjetivo Y como sustantivo (aunque su papel tradicional es el de sustantivo), entonces no esta claro si es sustantivo o adjetivo a veces. Es una palabra que 'esta en cambio'.

    That was so much fun. (En esta oracion, funciona como sustantivo, lo sabes por 'much', lo que no puede preceder un adjetivo)

    That was a fun game. (En esta, funciona como adjetivo porque modifica el sustantivo 'game')

    That was fun. (En esta, no esta tan claro. Cual sera? No se sabe ni se puede saber porque no hay ninguna pista como en las oraciones anteriores. Entonces, "Fue una diversion" o "Estuvo divertido"? Parece que depende un poco del contexto y de quien habla (lo que se quiere que signifique) pero no se puede decir cual sea.

    Yo diria que mucha gente ve 'fun' como adjetivo asi que 'funner' se puede decir y que se usa mucho en frente de sustantivos. Por el colmo, tambien he oido 'estuvo fun', para los que la usan asi, les tiene que ser adjetivo.

    Espero que me entiendas, :).
     
  17. Artrella Banned

    BA
    ARGENTINA Sp/Eng


    Gracias Charmedboi, si entiendo y tu explicación es muy buena. Entonces en esta oración (la original, que dio origen a este hilo) "baseball is more fun than soccer." >>> podría traducirse como "El baseball es más diversión que el fútbol" ??? Igual no sé si en español esto se pueda decir así.

    Bexitos! :)
     
  18. gotitadeleche Senior Member

    Texas, U.S.A.
    U.S.A. English
    I don't think so Art. In this case "fun" is acting as an adjective. You can tell because of the "more" fun, and it is modifying baseball. "El baseball es más divertido que el fútbol" sería la forma correcta de decirlo.

    ¡Qué lío es esa palabra!
     
  19. Artrella Banned

    BA
    ARGENTINA Sp/Eng


    Yes, Gotix, I thought of that but wanted to be sure whether it was wrong or not. Now you've answered to my question.


    Muchas gracias, Gotita!!! :p :p :p
     
  20. jacinta Senior Member

    California
    USA English
    Quisiera corregir esta palabra que escribió charmedboi82 para los que están aprendiendo el inglés. En serio, funner es incorrecto aunque se oye decir. Las formas de fun en comparativos son:
    fun
    more fun (It was more fun than a barrel of monkeys)
    most fun (It was the most fun I've ever had)

    It was fun. Es un adjectivo, no sustantivo, porque describe It.
    I had a lot of fun. Sí es un sustantivo aquí.
     
  21. charmedboi82 Senior Member

    USA, English
    No es que sean incorrectas... No hay ninguna regla que diga que son incorrectas 'funner' y 'funnest'. Lo que pasa es que '-er' y '-est' son los sufijos para formar el comparativo y el superlativo (no se como se dicen por cien por ciento en espanol) asi que la gente las usan asi pero 'fun' tradicionalmente ha sido un sustantivo. Entonces, suenan mal 'funner' y 'funnest' aunque no son incorrectas.

    Hay (al menos) dos maneras de ver la situation:
    1) Si es posible que 'fun' sea un adjetivo, estan bien 'funner' y 'funnest'.

    2) Si no es muy posible que 'fun' sea un adjetivo (y que si sigue en su papel tradicional como sustantivo), no estan bien 'funner' y funnest' y se tienen que usar 'more fun' y 'the most fun'.

    En conclusion, a algunos les suenan mal y a otros no. No son incorrectos pero son mas de estilo informal

    De un sitio web:
    You will certainly find "funner" and "funnest" in the dictionaries nowadays, primarily because today's fun-loving youngsters are in need of comparatives and superlatives for "fun" and use these words all the time. The adjectival use of "fun" is accepted rather widely: "This is a fun thing to do," but the use of the "-er" and "-est" forms grate on the ears of anyone over thirty. "To traditionalists," according to Garner, "the adjectival fun and its comparative forms remain blemishes in both writing and speech."

    From Garner's Modern American Usageby Bryan Garner. Copyright 2003 by Bryan A. Garner. Published by Oxford University Press, Inc., and used with the gracious consent of Oxford University Press.
    ---
    Para mi, creo que es bien hipocrita la gente que dice que 'funner' y 'funnest' no son correctas aunque las usan de manera adjetiva.
     
  22. EdD New Member

    Mexico,spanish
    Espero no sea un poco tarde para responder y espero esto te ayude:

    Utiliza "er" cuando la palabra sea corta, por ejemplo short-shorter.
    Cuando sea una palabra de 3 letras le agregas "er" pero la ultima letra la debes de repetir fun-funnier, hot-hottest.
    Cuando tiene dos o mas sílabas se añande la palabra "more". more important, more intelligent.

    Cualquier error porfavor corriganme
     
  23. mjscott Senior Member

    Arte-
    Hey! Howzit goin' gal?
    A predicate adjective is an adjective that is after the predicate--or is part of the predicate.
    "Baseball is more fun than soccer."

    "more fun" modifies baseball. It is an adjective that modifies baseball that is in the predicate.

    If it were diagrammed (is anyone old enough to remember diagramming sentences?) it would look something like this--

    Baseball |is\fun .
    ....................\more \than soccer

    (than should be on a slant)

    I hope this helps--and gotitadeleche is correct--when it is an adjective, it is
    fun
    more fun
    most fun

    Don't know why--that's the joys of English!

    PS-the periods (punto s) are only added to maintain spaces that did not show up. (Both more and than should modify fun.

    PPS--the line under fun should be longer--so that than soccer is also under it--it is not happening with this post, but I'm not going to complain.... I've lived too long and remember carbon copies, dittos, and mimeograph machines, and using a razor blade to make an erroneous "e" into an "a."
     
  24. jacinta Senior Member

    California
    USA English
    Well, call me a traditionalist, I don't mind at all. As soon as they put funner and funnest in my American Heritage or the Oxford Dictionary, I will accept them as real words. Am I to bow down to the laziness of youth to accept a wrong word?
     
  25. charmedboi82 Senior Member

    USA, English
    The laziness of youth? It really isn't just youth that creates these expressions. It's actually more lazy to not change, to stay in the same stagnant state. Languages evolve. I'm sure you're a fan of many authors for their creative works. This ingenuity is nothing short of that.

    As the quote states, if you're using 'fun' in an adjectival way, you're part of the blemish.

    There's nothing wrong with being a traditionalist. I personally feel as though I am. I feel like this is one way of keeping continuity in the language.
     
  26. Artrella Banned

    BA
    ARGENTINA Sp/Eng


    MJ!!! What a beauuutiful explanation and diagram!!! TEACHER!!! Razor blades and mimoegraph machines....uuuhhhh....thanks my friend!!! :thumbsup:
     

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