al di là di ogni considerazione

Discussion in 'Italian-English' started by Toad1919, Jan 2, 2009.

  1. Toad1919 Junior Member

    English - UK
    Hello!

    I'm wondering if anyone can help me with the above expression. If it is used at the beginning of a sentence where it is followed by something that is true e.g. "Al di là di ogni considerazione questo è perfetto." can it mean "without a doubt"? I can't find it in the dictionary with this meaning but "beyond all consideration" sounds wrong to me.

    Thanks very much in advance for your help! :)
     
  2. Rob625

    Rob625 Senior Member

    Murlo (SI)
    English - England
    I agree that "beyond all consideration" is no good. How about: "No ifs or buts, this is perfect"?
     
  3. I agree with you, Rob
     
  4. Toad1919 Junior Member

    English - UK
    Hi Rob,

    Thanks for your reply - that would be quite good but perhaps a bit too colloquial for the piece I'm translating. I'd love to hear any other suggestions. Do you think "without a doubt" isn't an option for this phrase then?
     
  5. Rob625

    Rob625 Senior Member

    Murlo (SI)
    English - England
    I think "without a doubt" means something slightly different.

    How about: "There is no room for discussion: this is perfect."
     
  6. brian

    brian Senior Member

    Montréal
    AmE (New Orleans)
    Actually it can be much more powerful than it's used here. It can be followed by something else, for example:

    Al di là di ogni considerazione artistica, è un bel quadro.
    Al di là di ogni considerazione legale, lui dovrebbe ridarle i soldi.
    Al di là di ogni considerazione logica, la amo perché mi fa sentire bene.


    Stuff like that. I guess it can be like "Without even considering it from an artistic point of view, it's a nice painting." "Besides taking into consideration the legal aspects, he should (simply) give her the money back (anyway)." "Without regard to/consideration for logic, I love her because she makes me feel good."

    I can't come up with a good translation. Wait for Italians to confirm (or deny) those sentences though.
     
  7. Einstein

    Einstein Senior Member

    Milano, Italia
    UK, English
    My understanding of the expression fits with Brian's examples, where "considerazione" is always followed by an adjective and the expression means something like "aside from" or "apart from". This is shown by Brian's own paraphrases.

    For this reason I find it strange to see "al di là di ogni considerazione" with no adjective. It doesn't seem to make much sense, unless it means "from all points of view". Italians, can you clarify?
     
  8. Paulfromitaly

    Paulfromitaly MODerator

    Brescia (Italy)
    Italian
    I agree with Brian's explanation too.
    You can actually find it also without an adjective: it means something like "regardless of any possible argument in favour or against it".
     
  9. Toad1919 Junior Member

    English - UK
    Thank you all very much for your help. With an adjective it makes sense but my text has it without. Perhaps the best option is to paraphrase the suggestion above as I can't think of a direct translation which expresses exactly the same meaning. Maybe "without question" would do?
     
  10. brian

    brian Senior Member

    Montréal
    AmE (New Orleans)
    Maybe it'd be helpful to ask the Italians whether there is any difference between al di là di ogni considerazione and senza dubbio.
     
  11. Paulfromitaly

    Paulfromitaly MODerator

    Brescia (Italy)
    Italian
    There's one, in my opinion.
    Senza dubbio implies that someone may have cast doubt on a statement, on a fact, on a suggestion.
    Al di là di ogni considerazione only tells us that the subject has been discussed and someone has probably expressed their opinions, but not necessarily doubts.

    The full sentence would be helpful, as usual.
     
  12. Golem-62

    Golem-62 Junior Member

    Italy - (TN)
    Italian
    Hallo !!
    I agree with Brian and Paul.
    I would describe the question like this:
    If I say "Al di la di ogni considerazione" - a form less categorical than "without a(ny)doubt"- I admit that somebody could move some critics or doubt, or simply some opinion, but all that can be stopped for a while because now I want to say something different; That's why we can say "beyond" = "Al di là" of any consideration. Consideration that can be done after, in another time.

    "Regardless of any possible argument " soundso to me the better, because it's neutral.

    Saluti
     
  13. You little ripper! Senior Member

    Australia
    Australian English
    What about in any event / in any case? They are both synonyms for regardless.

    In any event this is perfect.

    The sentences on either side might help.
     
  14. miri

    miri Senior Member

    Italy/Italian
    "In any case/event this is perfect" is perfect, Charles!:)
     
  15. You little ripper! Senior Member

    Australia
    Australian English
    Thank you, miri. :)
     
  16. giacinta Senior Member

    Melbourne
    English
    Hi,

    Just to add to the soup!-- I would translate it as "all other considerations aside"

    To me this best communicates the meaning intended. And it is a common expression.

    Giacinta
     
  17. You little ripper! Senior Member

    Australia
    Australian English
    I like that one, giacinta. And it's probably closest to the Italian.
     
  18. Golem-62

    Golem-62 Junior Member

    Italy - (TN)
    Italian
    Giacinta !! I agree !!
    That's the best!! Actually is the closest to the Italian.
    ....and the difference was only "aside" instead "beyond".... it's funny if we think the solution was so close.
    Best regards.
     
  19. Toad1919 Junior Member

    English - UK
    Hi everyone. Thank you all so much for all your help! I really like "all other considerations aside" too. Thanks Giacinta! :)
     
  20. pablo aguayo New Member

    Toronto, Canada
    English, Canada
    Questo 'thread' e vechio, ma io ho letto la stessa espressione due volta in una revista: "...si trattava di ripartire quasi da zero e conto questo, al di la di tute le contrapposizioni politiche e dei conflitti sociali. ?significato. Non poso trovare l'altro, lo scrivero piu tardi.
     

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