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All Slavic languages: implied "go" after modal verbs

Discussion in 'Other Slavic Languages' started by jazyk, Aug 30, 2008.

  1. jazyk Senior Member

    Brno, Česká republika
    Brazílie, portugalština
    In Czech it's possible to omit verbs meaning "to go" in the presence of modal verbs, as in Musím domů (lit. I must homewards). The same happens is non-Slavic languages, such as German (Ich muss nach Hause) and Dutch (Ik moet naar huis). Does this phenomenon exist in other Slavic languages?

    Thanks.
     
  2. TriglavNationalPark

    TriglavNationalPark Senior Member

    Chicago, IL, U.S.A.
    Slovenian (a.k.a. Slovene)
    It does in Slovene: Moram domov = I must (go) home
     
  3. Nanon

    Nanon Senior Member

    Entre Paris et Lisbonne
    français (France)
    It does in Russian even in the absence of modal verbs. "Вы куда? - Я домой."
     
  4. cyanista

    cyanista законодательница мод

    NRW
    Belarusian/Russian
    Exactly! :thumbsup::thumbsup:

    -Я сейчас быстренько в душ, потом за покупками, а потом на работу.
    -Он тогда к жене, а она ему от ворот поворот!
    :D

    Of course, my examples are very colloquial.
     
  5. sokol

    sokol Senior Member

    Vienna, Austria; raised in Upper Austria
    Austrian (as opposed to Australian)
    Is this colloquial speech or standard language?

    I am just wondering - I think that my Slovene teacher would have corrected this as an "error" (that is that it should be "moram iti domov"), but it was almost ten years ago when I did learn Slovene, so I am not sure if I remember this correctly.
     
  6. trance0 Senior Member

    Slovene
    It seems perfectly standard language to me, Sokol. Similar to:

    Moram k teti.
    Želim k mami.

    I see no reason, why these sentences would be wrong.
     
  7. echo chamber

    echo chamber Senior Member

    Skopje, Macedonia
    Macedonian (Македонски)
    It is possible in Macedonian: "Moram doma" = "I must home" instead of "Moram da odam doma" = "I must go home", however, very rarely used. I, personally, have perhaps never used it in my entire life without the verb "to go".
     
  8. Tagarela Senior Member

    Rio de Janeiro, Brasil
    Português - Brasil
    Ahoj,

    Take your chance before you regret it!

    As for Czech, what is the best option, with or without the verb?

    Na shledanou.:
     
  9. BezierCurve Senior Member

    It is also possible in Polish, although in an informal way, often in a hurry: :)

    Muszę do toalety! - "I have to the toilet!"
     
  10. trance0 Senior Member

    Slovene
    In Slovene sentences like "moram na WC" are in fact quite common in everyday speech. And as far as I know, this is also the case in German(ich muss aufs Klo).
     
  11. Jana337

    Jana337 Senior Member

    čeština
    The sentences have a colloquial flair without the verb.
     
  12. mateo19

    mateo19 Senior Member

    In my Slovak class we just saw an example (I'm sorry I don't specifically remember it to cite it here) where there was a motion expression, like domov or do kina without a motion verb. So, it does exist in Slovak. I do not know, however, if it is informal or standard. I'll let a more experienced forum dweller answer that one. :)
     
  13. sokol

    sokol Senior Member

    Vienna, Austria; raised in Upper Austria
    Austrian (as opposed to Australian)
    Now these too look colloquial to me :eek: - but of course I have full confidence in your native speaker's view! (That's why I asked in the first place.)

    It may be that my brain thinks that these constructions were much too similar to my mother tongue (= [Austrian] German) and therefore makes me believe that they surely can't be Slovenian ... anyway, my remark certainly is only that of a learner of Slovenian.
     
  14. trance0 Senior Member

    Slovene
    You needn`t excuse yourself, Sokol. Such sentences seem very natural to me, even if perhaps they aren`t standard language. I will however look into this matter more thoroughly and report my findings. Namely, I shall make use of the famous Toporišič Grammar of Slovene language, next week.
     
  15. Thomas1

    Thomas1 Senior Member

    polszczyzna warszawska
    I think this one of the very few, if not the only one, situations when we would naturally omit "go".
    Muszę do łazienki. is another variant of Bezier's example, and an informal version: Muszę do kibla.

    I would appreciate some other examples. :)


    Tom
     
  16. Darina Senior Member

    Bulgaria
    I think this is a different case! The question here is if the verb "to go" can be omitted after a MODAL verb: I must (go) home.
    Just for the record: such construction is impossible in Bulgarian. I think the main reason is the lack of cases which will make the meaning completely unclear.
    On the other hand, we have a special verb "to go home"- "otivam si", so we cannot easily omit "to go". ;)
     
    Last edited: Sep 4, 2008
  17. Nanon

    Nanon Senior Member

    Entre Paris et Lisbonne
    français (France)
    Sorry, Darina, for the lack of clarity! I wrote even in the absence of modal verbs, meaning that modal constructions with (ad)verbs with the omission of the verb "to go" were also possible - "мне нужно домой", etc.

    You don't need to be in a hurry if you omit the verb when you say "мне нужно в туалет"... :)
     
  18. Darina Senior Member

    Bulgaria
    Sorry for the misunderstanding! It is just because you did not give an example with the modal verb. :)
     
  19. Duya Senior Member

    Not in WR world
    Whatever
    (I dislike "here too" type of posts, but for the sake of completeness, since no one mentioned Bosnian/Serbian/Croatian...)

    Omission of "to go" is possible in Serbo-Croatian too. Generally, it is perfectly standard (Hoću kući, Želim u Ameriku), although it might have "a colloquial flair".
     
  20. iobyo Senior Member

    Bitola, Macedonia
    Macedonian
    Sorry for bumping a dead thread, but I just had to make this correction.

    I hope you don't mind, echo chamber.
     
  21. aprilmay

    aprilmay New Member

    Croatian
    It's almost always used in Croatian in everyday and colloquial speech, i.e. "Moram na WC", "Moram doma", "Moram na posao"
     
  22. turkish Junior Member

    Bulgarian

    It is possible in Bulgarian to do it .For example :Веднага в къщи !!as "Go Home this instant !!!
     
  23. Orlin Senior Member

    София
    български
    Само че тук въобще няма глагол (още повече модален), така че според мен посоченото не съответства на темата: тя е за конструкции от типа на посочените в пост № 21, които и според мен не са възможни в българския език (освен, може би, с редки изключения като "Искам вкъщи!").
     
    Last edited: Jun 14, 2010
  24. Anna111 New Member

    Dutch
    Dear all, in case you still want to talk about this topic I would very much appreciate your help. I'm currently involved in a small cross-linguistic research on exactly these types of sentences - sentences with modal verbs and a directional part, but without an infinitive. I'm comparing German, Romance, Celtic and Slavic languages - I'm very happy to see that the people here are already aware of this quirky type of sentences.

    For the Slavic part, I'm in desperate need of your help. Could you help me by filling out four questions on your language?
    For Bulgarian, follow this link: https://docs.google.com/a/students....9Dw3To53Wln19Q01-QY01jyXS5hKoxEhquLE/viewform
    For Czech, follow this link: https://docs.google.com/a/students....Fe9VTJ38yZdcs_QziwpkOCTO4SYL1kpGZgOo/viewform
    For Polish, follow this link: https://docs.google.com/a/students....aOuZkZ1FvU8W7qJNrGbrSSEEH7aPP2RJ7OSA/viewform
    For Russian, follow this link: https://docs.google.com/a/students....xti-f3BA8-izFvQ8VCNuSlt8dMn4qTL6tuDc/viewform
    For all other Slavic languages, follow this link: https://docs.google.com/a/students....80SCVVA0YnZ1MykauqH3pLfLCIjtkC-eKPNo/viewform

    Thank you very much - if I get enough responses I promise I'll post the summary here!

    Kind regards
     
  25. Anna111 New Member

    Dutch

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