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All Slavic languages: Kraj

Discussion in 'Other Slavic Languages' started by DaleC, Mar 14, 2006.

  1. DaleC Senior Member

    Right now there is a thread in which it has come to light that 'jagoda' means strawberry to most Slavs, but it means blueberry to Poles.

    This reminds me that in Russian and Ukrainian, 'kraj' means "border", but it means something like "homeland" in Polish. (In World War 2, the Poles called their guerrilla forces the Armija Krajowa, whose standard English translation is "the Home Army".)

    I wonder how many works there are (in any language) that compare in a systematic way the semantic drift of cognate words between any two (or more Slavic languages). For example, 'mesto' means "place" in Russian, while 'město' means "city" in Czech (and the word for "place" is 'místo').

    When one compares German and English word lists, one finds there also many amusing examples of semantic drift.
     
  2. Krossaffschcheg New Member

    Russia/Russian
    [край][kraj] - for general case - point (area, location, place, border, cell, territory, etc.) around center (capital, point, city, land, your homeplace, etc).

    If you live in province, and capital too far from you and capital state very politicaly military economic strong - you (may be) imagine it as center and circle of points - i.e. states, provinces, towns, etc. In slavic languages this psychology has old history.

    I don't know about other slavic lands. There is In Russian language idiomas like "moj kraj", any regions(states) has names like "Krasnojarskij Kraj"..

    About Ukraina.
    There is 2 opinion -
    1) Urkaina means far area, border land, Russia or Poland province, territory
    Ukraian nationalists example "benderovtzi" says - "it no true".
    2) Urkaina means land of "Ukri". Such nation refer to any West Europe authors, ex. Mavro Orbini
    Where true - i don't know

    ---
    thank you sorry my english
     
  3. skye Senior Member

    Slovenia
    Slovenian
    In Slovenian "kraj" means a small settlement. Not a village, not a city, not a big town - a small town. Something like "ein Ort" in German. That's the best equivalent I can think of.

    ("Mesto" can mean both place and town/city in Slovenian.)
     
  4. Suane

    Suane Senior Member

    Slovakia
    Slovakia
    Kraj in Slovak:
    - margin, rim, (edge)
    - land
    - administrative division
    - archaism for homeland
    Mesto- town, city, also downtown (colloquial)
    Miesto- place, locality, post (like in job)
     
  5. Aleksandra75 Junior Member

    Serbian/Bosnian, French
    In Bosnian/Serbian

    "Kraj" means the end as well as place and 'rodni kraj' means homelad.

    'Mesto or mjesto' means place, a spot or town (of average size or bigger village)

    Thats all that commes to my mind....
     
  6. Jagoda

    Jagoda Senior Member

    Canada
    Bilingual polski-English
    "Kraj" in Polish means country.
    "Ojczyzna" would be translated as homeland, 'land of my fathers' (ojciec=father).
    "Miasto" is city, but "miejsce" is place.
     
  7. MindStorm

    MindStorm Junior Member

    Moscow
    Russia, russian
    Oh yeah, in russian kraj is very same as in slovak, except it doesn't have a meaning of homeland
     
  8. cyanista

    cyanista законодательница мод

    NRW
    Belarusian/Russian
    Still, you can say родной край /radnoj kraj/ talking about homeland.
     
  9. Suane

    Suane Senior Member

    Slovakia
    Slovakia
    In Slovakia nowadays, when somebody wants to talk about kraj as a homeland, (s)he says it only in this combination (rodný kraj), nobody imagines homeland if you say only kraj. And as I have already said it is archaism, so it is not used nowadays very much.
     
  10. Jana337

    Jana337 Senior Member

    čeština
    I have nothing to add for Czech.
    Just a translation (not really necessary because Dale said it):
    Mesto (Sl.) - město (Cz.)
    Miesto (Sl.) - místo (Cz.)

    Well, maybe something more:
    There is a word related to kraj - krajina. It means landscape, Landschaft. A totally common word. We also often call paintings-sceneries krajinka (diminutive).

    Jana
     
  11. Jagoda

    Jagoda Senior Member

    Canada
    Bilingual polski-English
    I just remembered something! Just to add to the Polish translation, the expression "na skraju" means on the border of sthg.
     
  12. Jana337

    Jana337 Senior Member

    čeština
    Yes, like in Czech - na kraji, na okraji (similarly in Slovak, I guess).

    Jana
     
  13. MindStorm

    MindStorm Junior Member

    Moscow
    Russia, russian
    На краю-in russian
     
  14. martini_ New Member

    Koszalin
    Polska, polszczyzna
    It's like "Nemocnice na kraji miesta" translated in polish TV: "Szpital na peryferiach" :)
     
  15. Hryts New Member

    London
    English (UK)
    Also from the root Край (Kraj), in Ukrainian and Belarusian the word for country is Країна (Krajina) and Краіна (Kraina) respectively.

    The most commonly accepted etymology of Україна (Ukrajina) / Украина (Ukraina) [Ukr./Rus.] is that it is derived from the word Окраина (Okraina), which means outskirts, or borderland. Since, when the name "Ukraina" was first used to refer to the area it was the outskirts of the Russia.
     
  16. cadavir Junior Member

    Vienna (Wien)
    Deutsch, Bosnisch, Croatian (Dalmatian dialect), English, learning French
    In Croatian and Bosnian "kraj" have two meanings:

    1. kraj = the end of something
    example: the end of movie = kraj filma
    2. kraj = small place, like village
    example: my village = moj kraj
     
  17. Hryts New Member

    London
    English (UK)
    Doba = 24 hours in Ukrainian, also.
     
  18. templar414 New Member

    Osijek, Croatia
    Croatian
    There is one more meaning:

    3. kraj = next to
    example: kraj mene = next to me, beside me

    Also, ther are some idioms:
    Stati na kraj nečemu - put an end to something
    Izaći na kraj s nečim - to deal with something, to manage something
     
  19. Nadzieja New Member

    India
    Polish Poland
    SORRY, Jagoda, I must not agrre. KRAJ in moderrn polish means MOSTLY county (ang It cas be said that it mainly means POland in comparison to panstwo< soory for my typing I'm in India, no polish letters on the key board)but t may be by subjective feeling

    however KRAJ mean oslo region (=kraina) and in some implicit way BORDER - skraj however i found both wersions
     
  20. Jagoda

    Jagoda Senior Member

    Canada
    Bilingual polski-English
    Nadzieja,
    as you can see in my post from March 16th, I wrote that: "Kraj" in Polish means country.
    Later, I added that "na skraju" means on the border of sthg. In this word you can see kraj, suggesting maybe that "na skraju" was etymologically derived from "kraj" or the other way around.
     
  21. slavic_one

    slavic_one Senior Member

    Prague, Czech Republic
    Croatian (štokavski, jekavski)
    Split from here:
    http://forum.wordreference.com/showthread.php?t=948752

    One more question about this song: how край can be translated as a country?
    Or did you mean just some area, because I was looking in dictionary if край has a meaning of country (страна) but I find it couldn't! Or maybe it can in some spoken Russian?
     
    Last edited: May 9, 2008
  22. Christo Tamarin

    Christo Tamarin Senior Member

    Bulgarian
    As you can see here, край also means land or country.
     
  23. slavic_one

    slavic_one Senior Member

    Prague, Czech Republic
    Croatian (štokavski, jekavski)
    Thank you! I was already looking in some dictionary but haven't found meaning of country! But now I see :)
     

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