All Slavic languages: slovo

Discussion in 'Other Slavic Languages' started by TriglavNationalPark, Jan 4, 2009.

  1. TriglavNationalPark

    TriglavNationalPark Senior Member

    Chicago, IL, U.S.A.
    Slovenian (a.k.a. Slovene)
    Split from here: please discuss here only "slovo".

    I'll open a new thread on the Slovenian slovo when I get a chance to check my etymologcal dictionary.

    In the meantime, here's a map showing what slovo means in various Slavic languages:

    Slovo false friends map
     
    Last edited: Jan 7, 2009
  2. trance0 Senior Member

    Slovene
    Well, maybe I can be of assistance until Triglav finds his etymological dictionary. This is from SSKJ:

    slOvo -a s (o) zastar. (veraltet, obsolete)
    1. beseda: spregovoril je z glasnimi slovi
    2. črka: vklesano slovo
    Translation:
    1. word: he spoke with loud words
    2. letter: engraved letter


    slovO -esa s (o e)
    1. pozdrav (...)
    2. ekspr., v zvezi z od izraža prenehanje obstajanja česa: slovo od najine ljubezni (...)
    3. nar. vzhodnoštajersko omejen, neumen človek: zakaj pa je prišlo to slovo k hiši


    I am not going to translate the second meaning, as I`d mentioned it is about "farewell, leave-taking etc.".

    P.S.: I have just thought of another word based on "slOvo" : "slovAr" = "dictionary". This word is still in active use in Slovene and its obvious origin is in the word "slOvo". It would probably be "besedAr" were it based on the more modern version of the word "slovo = beseda".
     
    Last edited: Jan 4, 2009
  3. TriglavNationalPark

    TriglavNationalPark Senior Member

    Chicago, IL, U.S.A.
    Slovenian (a.k.a. Slovene)
    Interestingly enough, besedar is listed in Slovar slovenskega knjižnega jezika (SSKJ) as an archaic word for a linguist. Apparently, some Croatian dialects use besedar in place of the BCS rječnik (= dictionary). Those dialects, like Slovenian (and quite unlike standard BCS), use beseda to mean "word". An old Slovenian word for a dictionary is besednik.

    When I finally get my hands on that etymological dictionary, I'll check whether slovar is merely a 19th century borrowing from Russian (словарь = dictionary), as I suspect it might me, or whether its history in Slovenian is longer than that.
     
    Last edited: Jan 7, 2009
  4. trance0 Senior Member

    Slovene
    Well, I was only (wild) guessing with "besedAr"(dictionary, stress on the final syllable), but linguist is in fact "besEdar"(stress on the second syllable). ;) Now that you`ve mentioned BCS "rječnik", I remembered that "-nik" ending is in fact also a possibility in word formation(riba-ribnik, beseda-besednik). :D
     
  5. TriglavNationalPark

    TriglavNationalPark Senior Member

    Chicago, IL, U.S.A.
    Slovenian (a.k.a. Slovene)
    As we say in Slovenian, "kdor čaka, dočaka"; I finally have Marko Snoj's Slovenski etimološki slovar with me. :)

    According to the dictionary, slovo, when stressed on the initial syllable, still means "word" or "letter" in some Slovenian dialects, but this is how it explains the word's modern meaning in standard Slovenian ("farewell"):

    "Pomen 'pozdravljanje ob odhodu, lo
    čitev, odhod' se je razvil iz 'beseda' prek vmesnega 'dovoljenje (za odhod)', ki je v sloven. še znan v 16. stol."

    Here's my translation:

    "Its meaning 'farewell, parting, leave-taking' developed from the meaning 'word' via the intermediary meaning 'permission (to depart)', which was still used in Slovenian in the 16th century."

    As I expected, slovar is merely a 19th century borrowing of the Russian
    словарь.


     
  6. sokol

    sokol Senior Member

    Vienna, Austria; raised in Upper Austria
    Austrian (as opposed to Australian)
    Fascinating. :)

    So if I understand this correctly, in Slovenian the word "slóvo = (modern: beseda) = word" was used something like "to >give word< = >give permission< to depart" which later developped (with change of accent and declension) into meaning "slovó = farewell"?

    I hope I've got that right, I'm not completely sure about it. ;)
     
  7. TriglavNationalPark

    TriglavNationalPark Senior Member

    Chicago, IL, U.S.A.
    Slovenian (a.k.a. Slovene)
    Yes, that's how I understand it as well. I vaguely remember reading that such departure permissions were common in medieval communities, but I can't remember the source.

    BTW, slovó (=farewell), despite the different meaning, retains the old plural form (slovesa) and declension pattern of slóvo (=word).

    The Freising Manuscripts*, after all, open with the line: "GLAGOLITE PO NAZ REDKA ZLOUEZA", meaning "Speak (repeat) these few words after us."

    * The oldest surviving document in the Slovenian language (circa 9th century).
     
  8. texpert Senior Member

    Czech
    Kdo čeká, ten se dočká, indeed.

    Interesting. One almost feels like going through the looking glass. It could have taken the same path back home, but somehow it took a different turn in the end.

    How about present use of "giving one's word"? Is there such a phrase? I somehow cannot picture you saying davati besedu.
     
    Last edited: Jan 9, 2009
  9. TriglavNationalPark

    TriglavNationalPark Senior Member

    Chicago, IL, U.S.A.
    Slovenian (a.k.a. Slovene)
    Yes, it's dati (komu) besedo. (BTW, dajati is the imperfective form; davati is BCS.)

    EDIT: dati (komu) besedo has another, just as common, meaning: "to give someone the chance to speak". For instance:

    Voditelj oddaje mu ni dal besede. = The host of the show didn't give him a chance to speak.
     
    Last edited: Jan 9, 2009
  10. trance0 Senior Member

    Slovene
    It is in fact from the late 10th or early 11th century.
     
  11. TriglavNationalPark

    TriglavNationalPark Senior Member

    Chicago, IL, U.S.A.
    Slovenian (a.k.a. Slovene)
    You're right; I stand corrected. The original text, of which the Freising Manuscripts are a copy, may be from the 9th century, hence my confusion.
     

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