All Slavic languages: Voiced alveolar affricate

Discussion in 'Other Slavic Languages' started by vianie, May 10, 2014.

  1. vianie Senior Member

    Slovak
    Hello,

    Voiced alveolar affricate is a type of consonantal sound used in four of Slavic languages - Polish, Kashubian, Macedonian and Slovak.

    Is this sound natively appearing in any other Slavic language in its non-standard level?

    Please no consonant clusters and assimilations, thanks
     
  2. ahvalj

    ahvalj Senior Member

    It was an intermediate result of the Second and Third palatalizations (nogė>nodzė>nozė and *kъnęgъ>kъnędzь) and as such existed for several centuries in most Slavic dialects. In West Slavic, it was also the result of the development of *dj>dz(>z) (*medju>*medzu>między, medzi, mezi) and again existed for some time in the entire West Slavic area.
     
  3. iobyo Senior Member

    Bitola, Macedonia
    Macedonian
    The codifiers of Montenegrin had initially intended to include it in the standard, but it's absent in the spelling manual and grammar they published.

    At the non-standard level, it occurs in some spoken dialects in Serbia, Montenegro and Bulgaria, and in many dialects in the Republic of Macedonia and northern Greece.
     
  4. ahvalj

    ahvalj Senior Member

    Literary Ukrainian and Belarusian have a limited number of words with this sound, which in all cases is either a borrowing or a result of a secondary development (e. g. Ukrainian дзвонити from late Common Slavic zvoniti). Also, if you don't mind a palatalized dz', Belarusian has it in an endless amount of words, where it has developed from a palatalized d' (neděļa>нядзеля).
     
  5. vianie Senior Member

    Slovak
    This is the case in Polish, Kashubian and Macedonian. I can't recall any Slovak word with dz that has been developed this way.
    This is the case in Polish, Kashubian and Slovak. I am not sure about Macedonian here.

    1) Do you know any Serbian, Montenegrin or Bulgarian words with dz (s) ?
    2) Are there any Macedonian dialect non-using that sound? In Slovakia, it's used everywhere, even the Hungarians do have it in their language.
    3) Did you mean any Slavic dialect in northern Greece?
    In certain Western and Eastern Slovak dialects, the dz is used instead of a palatal ď (dedina>dzedzina, dievča>dzifče).



    Due to the late Slovak colonization, the dz sound is used also in the dialect of Czech that is spoken on the northwestern side of White Carpathians.
     
    Last edited: May 10, 2014
  6. ahvalj

    ahvalj Senior Member

    You are speaking about the attested stages of these languages. In the second and third palatalizations, dz was an intermediate stage between the original g and the current z, and is known in the Old Church Slavonic. In all the modern Slavic languages (except for the word dzvezda in Macedonian) it has developed further into z or z'. The same happened with the dz(<*dj) in Czech.
     
  7. vianie Senior Member

    Slovak
    I'm speaking that at this moment I can't recall of any Slovak word with dz that has been developed that way.
     
    Last edited: May 10, 2014
  8. ahvalj

    ahvalj Senior Member

    Slovak has eliminated the results of the second and third palatalizations for h (there may be some remnants, don't know): the original type was e. g. vrah/vrazi.
     
  9. FairOaks Junior Member

    Sofia
    Bulgarian
    Дзвън/дзъркам as well as some hundred other words I can remember don't follow that rule, unless you can somehow fit the *g > *d' > dz > z pattern into roots such as *svonos. The opposite assumption is false, too. You're overgeneralising.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: May 11, 2014
  10. ahvalj

    ahvalj Senior Member

    At least kňaz has z from dz from the third palatalization.
     
  11. ahvalj

    ahvalj Senior Member

    Дуриданов (гл. ред.) · 1991 · Граматика на старобългарския език: 116–117:
    «Съвременният български книжовен език почти не познава този звук (с изключение на три-четири редки думи: дзвиска, дзивгар, дзън, дзифт), но в редица народни, предимно западни, говори той е доста разпространен, като често замества по-старото з — тенденция, която се е проявила още в старобългарската епоха (срв. проѕѧбе Мт 13.24 Асем)».

    Георгиев, Дуриданов, Рачева (ред.) · 1971 · Български етимологичен речник. Том I (А–З)
    375: дзвън-, вж. звън.
    The words on дз- listed there (373–380) either have corresponding forms on з- (дзаран, дзастра, дзваница, дзвено, дзвяр etc.), or are borrowings (дзангалаш, дзердзеват), or are onomatopoeic (дзвизнувам, дзвокам, дзедзам), or are results of contamination (дзворец «[в]ероятно кръстоска от скворец = скорец и дрозд»). Дзвезда, the only one, appears original (gwě->dzwě->zwě-). Looks that this дз- in Bulgarian dialects is almost always of an emphatic origin. Southern blood…
     
    Last edited by a moderator: May 11, 2014
  12. ahvalj

    ahvalj Senior Member

    Why this dz- can hardly be original: the development of the IE palatovelars k'>>s and g'>>z was parallel, and if some areas had preserved the voiced affricate >dz, we must have expected the preservation of the voiceless one as well, i. e. >c, which is not attested, as far as I know. Moreover, regarding the stability of the voiceless affricates in Slavic vs. the deaffricatization of their voiced counterparts in all the three Slavic palatalizations (čelověkъ/žena, rǫcě/nozě, naricati/podvizati), one would rather expect a reflexation c/z (*cěmьja/zemja) and not s/(dz) suggested by a small number of Bulgarian dialectal examples.
     
  13. iobyo Senior Member

    Bitola, Macedonia
    Macedonian
    1) I'm not sure about Bulgarian, but FairOaks did give one example. The Serbian Wikipedia article for Montenegrin language gives a few examples:
    2) Yes. In some subdialects of the Debar dialect, Lower Polog dialect, Upper Prespa dialect and Nestram-Kostenar dialect it isn't used or its use is facultative.

    3) No, as with the Upper Prespa dialect and Nestram-Kostenar (above).

    As a side note, the reason why so many Macedonian dialects have preserved the phonemic status of /dz/ is usually explained as owing the influence of other Balkan languages (especially Aromanian and Greek).
     
  14. Vulcho Junior Member

    Bulgarian
    So is there any language/dialect that preserves the original dz?

    It seems to me that in Bulgarian dialects dz comes from earlier z in several cases:

    1. zv- > dzv-(дзвезда, дзвън, дзвер)
    2a. -lz- > -ldz- (сълдза)
    2b. -nz- > -ndz- (бендзин, ондзи, лендзя, скръндза)
    2c. -rz- > -rdz- (бърдзо, мърдзел)
    3. z- > dz-(дзарана, дзаден)

    In the same dialects also ž becomes dž in those same cases (eg. джвакам, дърджа, джелязо, мъндж, ...)
     
  15. iobyo Senior Member

    Bitola, Macedonia
    Macedonian
    Many Western Macedonian dialects have /dz/ from the Slavic second palatalization (ноѕе, ѕвезда, белеѕи). The sound change /zv/ → /dzv/ was regularized and now those dialects have ѕвек(от), ѕвекне, ѕвер, ѕвисне, ѕвоно, etc. This regularization also triggered /ʒv/ → /dʒv/: џвака. The Western Macedonian sound changes /zv/ → /dzv/ and /ʒv/ → /dʒv/ were accepted into the standard, but this process is no longer productive (as with звук < Russ.).

    Apart from Greek loanwords, there are a few anomalous cases: ѕид, ѕирка (< *zьrěti), ѕемја, еѕеро, солѕа, молѕе, бронѕа, бенѕин), of which only the first two examples are standard.
     
  16. HalberMensch New Member

    Bulgarian
    And what about "дзв(я/е)р"? How is it any different?

    Really now...:rolleyes:
     
  17. ahvalj

    ahvalj Senior Member

    Ѕвѣзда/цвѣтъ have sibilants as a result of the second palatalization that took place some time in the 6–8th centuries and not everywhere across the Slavic area: West Slavic e. g. systematically preserves gw/kw, cp. Polish gwiazda/kwiat. The sibilants in звѣрь/свѧтъ are Slavic reflexes of the Indo-European palatovelars g'h/g'/k' and are much older, cp. Lithuanian žvėris/šventas.

    There are also some deviating cases, e. g. Lithuanian has žvaigždė for the Slavic гвѣзда, which doesn't fit this picture, but this is explained as a result of an ancient inconsistent assibilation in Slavic (cp. also žąsis/гѫсь or šešuras/свекъръ); there are also cases when Slavic has the assibilation and Baltic doesn't, e. g. слушати/klausyti, and even cases when both reflexes coexist within Slavic, e. g. Russian прислонить/приклонить.

    That was actually an allusion to FairOaks' (now censored) post.
     
  18. Милан Senior Member

    Novi Sad, Serbia
    Serbian (Србија)
    In standard Serbian at the end of the word when the next one starts with voiced consonant.
    отац би/otac bi [otadz bi]
     
  19. HalberMensch New Member

    Bulgarian
    Ah yes, you're right of course. I somehow managed to overlook the West Slavic reflexes and thought both examples had *gv<*ghw.

    I see, it just looked very odd in that context. Nevermind, just a misunderstanding.:)
     

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