Anche perché

Discussion in 'Italian-English' started by cianoz, Feb 20, 2007.

  1. cianoz New Member

    Italy - Italian
    Qualcuno sa dirmi la traduzione di "anche perché..."
    Grazie
     
  2. Saoul

    Saoul Senior Member

    Milan
    Italian
    Ciao Cianoz,

    benvenuto. :)

    Credo che ti convenga contestualizzare "anche perchè" in modo che il nostro aiuto possa essere più corretto.

    Grazie.
    Saoul
    Moderatore
     
  3. underhouse Senior Member

    "Also because" ma ci dovresti dare tutta la frase.
    Benvenuto.
     
  4. GavinW Senior Member

    Italy
    British English
    Hi Cianoz and welcome to the wonderful world of WR....

    "Also because". But if you supply more context, we can be surer that that is the best translation. Sometimes it can be better to say something like: "and another reason for this is that..."
    ;-)
     
  5. Gwennhadu Senior Member

    o
    Ciao!
    Se fornisci uan frase completa é meglio, si puó tradurre variamente, dipendendo dal tipo di frase :)
     
  6. cianoz New Member

    Italy - Italian
    Grazie a tutti, comunque "anche perché" mi sembra una frase che cambia di poco il significato a seconda del contesto.
    Nel mio caso comunque la frase potrebbe essere "anche perché vorrei sapere altre cose da te"
     
  7. Saoul

    Saoul Senior Member

    Milan
    Italian
    Beh, come dall'esempio di Gavin, in realtà ci possono essere varie sfumature da tenere in considerazione. Nel caso del tuo esempio mi sembra che "also because" possa andare bene.
     
  8. Einstein

    Einstein Senior Member

    Milano, Italia
    UK, English
    I'd like to revive this thread because I'm not satisfied with the translation "also because". In English "also because" makes sense only if we have already given another reason: "I'm not going out because I'm tired and also because it's raining".

    In Italian it's used as follows: "Oggi non esco, anche perché piove"; this means there are other reasons too, this is not the only one.
    It makes no sense in English to say "I'm not going out today, also because it's raining".
    I can think of "... because it's raining among other things", but it sounds a bit long. Any suggestions, also :)D) for other situations?
     
  9. licinio

    licinio Senior Member

    Italian
    Anche perché is often used in Italian as a set phrase, also when you don't have other reasons to add. People sometimes even start their sentences with this phrase, which shows they are giving their only reason and all the others they think they are adding it to, are only in the back of their heads.
    Maybe also because can be used when we really mean what we say. Also what with ... and... can be a useful phrase.
     
  10. effeundici Senior Member

    Italy
    Italian - Tuscany
    I reopen this thread because, in my opinion, an Italian can't talk without an effective translation of his beloved anche perché.

    Non verrò da te, anche perché non mi hai mai invitato
    Non sei stato promosso, anche perché non è che ti sia impegnato molto

    In my opinion this idiom conveys the following: ci sono diversi motivi, sicuramente comunque non devi assolutamente sottovalutare il fatto che...

    Potremmo provare ad usare last but not least ? (Lo so, non funziona, ma non mi viene di meglio)
     
  11. Einstein

    Einstein Senior Member

    Milano, Italia
    UK, English
    I'm still not sure about the translation (I don't think "last but not least" works), but psychologically it may be that the single reason given might not seem sufficient to justify the decision.

    Oggi non esco, anche perché piove (sì, l'ombrello ce l'ho, ma non è l'unico motivo).
    Is that a correct interpretation?
     
  12. effeundici Senior Member

    Italy
    Italian - Tuscany
    Io direi che la pioggia è il motivo principale ma non l'unico; e probabilmente la persona non uscirebbe anche se non piovesse.

     
  13. fabiog_1981 Senior Member

    Milano/Italia - Italiano
    Mi sembra di aver letto una volta "partially because"

    I'm not going out today, partially because it's raining.
    Natives, vi suona male?
     
  14. Einstein

    Einstein Senior Member

    Milano, Italia
    UK, English
    With "partly" rather than "partially" it would not be incorrect, but anyway I don't think anybody would say this in a normal conversation.
    You could say "partly because" if you intended to give the other reason(s).
     
  15. brian

    brian Senior Member

    Montréal
    AmE (New Orleans)
    I hadn't seen this thread until today, but inspired by this thread, I'd like to offer my own suggestions for anche perché:

    - especially because (although this does admittedly have a slightly different meaning/emphasis)
    - one reason being (basically gives the correct sense, but like some of the other suggestions, it's simply not as common or natural in English as anche perché is in Italian).

    I've always thought that it simply boiled down to a sort of difference in thought between Italian speakers and English speakers. Anche perché conveys a certain feeling that I believe English speakers generally don't convey, or at least not as frequently.

    Like I wrote in the other thread, when I was living in Italy, using anche perché a lot, I found myself saying things like especially because in English to a much greater degree (because of Italian interference). Normally we don't express that.
     
  16. You little ripper! Senior Member

    Australia
    Australian English
    But we do say ".....mainly because......".

    I'm not going out today, mainly because it's raining.
     
  17. brian

    brian Senior Member

    Montréal
    AmE (New Orleans)
    Yeah, good one :thumbsup: ... again, slightly different from anche perché, but it boils down to the fact that the specific meaning of anche perché is really not often expressed in English.
     
  18. randomfuoco Junior Member

    Amman
    English- US
    Voglio distinguere tra questi due tentativi.

    Riguardo al nostro esempio con la pioggia, se dici "anche perche' piove" indica che la pioggia e' la ragione principale o e' secondaria?
     
  19. rrose17

    rrose17 Senior Member

    Montreal
    Canada, English
    Well then how about among other things which is an often used expression that perhaps conveys the same meaning without prioritizing anything? Then again another thing just came to mind. Something, some people close to me, used quite often is to start a sentence with "It's also that..." which again implies that there are other things going on in their head but they're about to tell you one of them.
     
  20. You little ripper! Senior Member

    Australia
    Australian English
    Hoepli translates it with 'not least because', which is probably what F11 was trying to get at in Post 10.

    ànche
    non posso dirtelo, anche perché lo diresti al tuo collega I can’t tell you, not least because you would tell your colleague

    'Not least because' is used to emphasize something particularly important. 'One of the main/primary reasons being' is another way of saying the same thing.

    Non verrò da te, anche perché non mi hai mai invitato!
    I'm not coming over, not least because you've never invited me!

    Non sei stato promosso, anche perché non è che ti sia impegnato molto!

    You haven't been promoted, not least because you haven't really committed yourself!

    Oggi non esco, anche perché piove.
    I'm not going out today, not least because it's raining.
     
    Last edited: May 8, 2009
  21. brian

    brian Senior Member

    Montréal
    AmE (New Orleans)
    Yeah, anche perché is good, but once again (and maybe it's an AE/Brian thing), it's just not as common/natural for me as anche perché.

    What I mean is, I don't want Italians to get the impression that they should go around saying not least because all the time because really, its frequency compared to anche perché is quite low.

    It should also be noted that anche perché is just one of a number of phrases using this particular meaning of anche (though in my experience it's the most common one).

    I'm not sure if anyone else saw this, but licinio in post #9 above said:

    To me, this is an odd use of the word also in English, and I'm quite sure that what he meant to say was anche quando...

    Basically, anche is used to mean "one reason/situation/possibility/whatever (among multiple) being..." but the fact is that I just don't think we express this in English very often.

    In other words, we can find great translations that render the meaning, but if they are used with the same frequency and freedom as anche perché, they are going to sound unnatural.

    That's why I think especially because is the best choice--and indeed I would use it for all the examples above!--because it's probably the most common (at least for me) among all the translations suggested thus far and it renders the meaning quite well (even if not perfectly).
     
  22. You little ripper! Senior Member

    Australia
    Australian English
    Brian, 'one of the main/primary reasons being', which I suggested in my last post as a synonym for 'not least because' is very common in English.
     
    Last edited: May 8, 2009
  23. Einstein

    Einstein Senior Member

    Milano, Italia
    UK, English
    I think Charles' "mainly because" is the best one suggested so far.

    I'm just thinking that there's also a question of mentality; English speakers might not consider it so necessary to specify that there's more than one reason!

    However, as licinio says,
    so the "anche" could just be a filler.

    By the way, better "even when" than "also when" (but "even because" wouldn't work!).
     
  24. Paulfromitaly

    Paulfromitaly MODerator

    Brescia (Italy)
    Italian
    Would you ever say "one more reason being" ?
    That's what anche perchè means to me: for several reasons (which I may or may not mention or have mentioned) and for this other reason.
     
  25. You little ripper! Senior Member

    Australia
    Australian English
    It would sound silly in English unless we had already mentioned another reason.
     
  26. brian

    brian Senior Member

    Montréal
    AmE (New Orleans)
    Yeah, mainly because and especially because are my favorites, even though they're still slightly different.

    Charles, one of the main (primary) reasons being (is) because is certainly common, but it's a mouthful and not used with the same freedom or flexibility as anche perché.

    I think we're really just going to have to be content with the fact that it boils down to a difference in languages/speakers. There are simply some things that certain languages/speakers express that others don't. Like Einstein said, it's a question of mentality. It also has a lot to do with what you're used to saying.

    As I mentioned above, I started saying things like especially because and mainly because in English with greater frequency because of Italian interference -- my brain was still working Italian-ly, even though most native English speakers never feel the need to express the idea of anche perché.
     
  27. Paulfromitaly

    Paulfromitaly MODerator

    Brescia (Italy)
    Italian
    Right..I guess it boils down to the fact we don't feel the need to be always so logic (well, I do..) so the fact we drop a hint about something we haven't previously mentioned sounds ok.
     
  28. You little ripper! Senior Member

    Australia
    Australian English
    I know it's a mouthful but the only reason I suggested it is because it's a more common way of saying 'not least because' which is how the dictionary translates 'anche perché. 'Mainly/especially because' definitely sound more natural, but it's telling the listener that it is the principal reason why........... as opposed to one of the principal reasons why ..............., which is what 'not least because' means.
     
  29. Einstein

    Einstein Senior Member

    Milano, Italia
    UK, English
    A pedantic aside here;): everyone's saying "the reason is because...", but at school I was taught that this was a repetition and you should say "the reason is that...".
    I see the logic of this; also in Italian we don't say "il motivo è perché..." but "il motivo è che...". Does anybody agree?:confused:
     
  30. Paulfromitaly

    Paulfromitaly MODerator

    Brescia (Italy)
    Italian
    Definitely :)
     
  31. brian

    brian Senior Member

    Montréal
    AmE (New Orleans)
    Yes, you "should" say (or at least write) either The reason is that... or It is because..., but not both together. However, The reason is because... is very common in colloquial speech--I use it all the time and probably will never stop using it. :D

    But you can't always compare languages to see what's correct and what's not.

    In English we can say either The reason why I... or The reason that I... or even The reason I... --although some grammarians may condemn one or the other for whatever reason.

    In Italian it's Il motivo per cui... and not Il motivo perché... and yet in German it's (literally) The reason why... and not The reason that/for which...
     
  32. Einstein

    Einstein Senior Member

    Milano, Italia
    UK, English
    Brian, you're slightly confusing two forms. The reason why I... is different from what we're discussing and is perfectly correct. Here we're discussing The reason is...
    We can put the two together in the same sentence:

    I don't fly because I'm afraid of heights becomes:
    The reason why I don't fly is that I'm afraid of heights.

    I too am capable of saying The reason is because..., but when I'm writing I avoid it, especially on the forum as I don't want to miseducate the non-natives!

    Analogies don't prove anything, certainly, but where the rule does hold in both languages the comparison a useful illustration.
     
  33. brian

    brian Senior Member

    Montréal
    AmE (New Orleans)
    I wasn't confusing the two. I just wanted to point out (using the reason why/that) that you say something one way in Italian, another way in German, and either way in English*--simply to show that, yes, comparisons of constructions across languages can be helpful, but like you said, they don't really "prove" anything.

    *if you agree that motivo per cui and reason that (instead of for which) are basically the same.
     
  34. Einstein

    Einstein Senior Member

    Milano, Italia
    UK, English
    I don't! The translation of il motivo per cui is the reason why.

    Il motivo per cui l'ho fatto è che...
    The reason why I did it is that...

    PS No, I'm thinking that we do say The reason I did it and this can become The reason that I did it. This then becomes confusing if we follow it with is that... So that's one of the reasons why people say The reason is because...:D
     
    Last edited: May 8, 2009
  35. GavinW Senior Member

    Italy
    British English
    That's a shame (!), because my clear favorite is your other suggestion: "one reason being". For me, it gets it most times. Certainly more times than "mainly" etc (ie referring to a "principle" reason).
     
    Last edited: May 8, 2009
  36. You little ripper! Senior Member

    Australia
    Australian English
    I have no idea why I even put 'because' in the synonym I suggested as a substitute for 'not least because', because I wouldn't normally use it. It's probably also why it's a bit of a mouthful, Brian. I wouldn't even subtitute it with 'that'.

    I'm not coming over, one of the main reasons being (that) you've never invited me!
    You haven't been promoted, one of the main reasons being (that) you haven't really committed yourself!
    I'm not going out today, one of the main reasons being (that) it's raining.

    There are some conflicting opinions here on the use of 'the reason is because'.
     
    Last edited: May 9, 2009
  37. tomzenith

    tomzenith Senior Member

    English - Britain
    Sorry to carry this on probably past the point where it's useful - but whenever I've heard anche perche' I've translated it in my head as something like 'if only because' or 'if just for' or 'apart from anything else', if you see what I mean. It kind of seemed to me that the sense of anche perche' isn't necessarily that it's the main reason, just that it's a reason that stands on its own. Am I way off..?

    I'm not going out today, apart from anything else it's chucking it down.
    I think he's alright, if only because he's never done anything bad to me.
    One day I'm going to go to Italy, if only for the ice cream.

    Would these translate differently in Italian?
     
    Last edited: May 9, 2009
  38. Einstein

    Einstein Senior Member

    Milano, Italia
    UK, English
    These are not bad at all! Our main difficulty has been in finding a universal translation, but you're probably right that in English we have specific phrases for the various cases.
     
  39. effeundici Senior Member

    Italy
    Italian - Tuscany
    "Yeah, mainly because and especially because are my favorites, even though they're still slightly different"

    "Si, mainly because e especially because sono le mie favorite,anche se sono un po' differenti"

    In my opinion this sentence by Brian contains the solution to the problem.

    In Anche se and anche perché , anche works the same way. So you, english speakers, should try to modify because exactly the same way as even modifies though.
     
    Last edited: May 15, 2009
  40. tomzenith

    tomzenith Senior Member

    English - Britain
    I think that's easier said than done! :D
     
  41. Histonium

    Histonium Junior Member

    Connacht
    Italian
    I have just learned that I have been mistranslating "anche perché" since I started learning English. I would have translated this with "also why" and I have surely done this mistake several times; in all honesty, nobody has corrected me so far.

    "Credo che trovare un buon lavoro in questo periodo sia difficile, anche perché siamo/l'economia è in fase di recessione"
    I would have translated this:
    "I think that it's difficult to find a well paid job now, also why we are in recession/the downturn bites"

    Could you anyone help me to correct this sentences?
     
    Last edited: May 19, 2009
  42. Einstein

    Einstein Senior Member

    Milano, Italia
    UK, English
    You main problem is the translation of perché. We use why for the question (direct or indirect), because for the answer:
    - Why are you running? (Indirect: tell me why you're running).
    - Because I'm late.

    For "anche perché" I suggest you read the suggestions in the thread.
     
  43. Histonium

    Histonium Junior Member

    Connacht
    Italian
    Hi Einstein,
    I knew and I know that rule, but I don't know why I used to mistake it all the time.
    Sometimes, we (adult) Italians keep using the same structure in translating sentences into other languages.
    To translate "anche perché", I will use "not least because" (or something else) from now on.
    Thank you very much
     
  44. armour65 Senior Member

    New York City
    United States English
    Hi all,

    Sorry for bringing up an old thread, but I wanted to just clarify the distinction between "anche perche' " and "tra l'altro". Would there be a significant difference between saying:

    - Credo che trovare un lavoro in questo periodo sia difficile, anche perche' l'economia e` in fase di recessione.

    - Credo che trovare un lavoro in questo periodo sia difficile perche', tra l'altro, l'economia e` in fase di recessione.
     
  45. Siberia

    Siberia Senior Member

    UK-Wales - English
    Well, in the second you are saying that there are also other things happening to the economy.
     
  46. armour65 Senior Member

    New York City
    United States English
    So "anche perche' " is general and refers to other things (ie. there are few companies in the area, jobs are being outsourced), in addition to the recession

    While "Tra l'altro" refers to the fact that the in addition to the recession, high unemployment and increasing numbers of banks going bankrupt makes finding a job more difficult?
     
  47. Girl2010 Junior Member

    Italian
    Io direi: "Furthermore, ....."
     
  48. Little Jimmy Senior Member

    Manchester, United Kingdom
    English - England
    Hello,

    Yep, I am another person who would like to re-open this thread. Here is an an example of why 'also because' does not always convey the correct meaning of 'anche perche'.

    'La sua arte, grafica sperimentale, punta sul linguaggio polisemantico del colore.
    Anche perché il suo percorso è partito dall’animazione per l’infanzia'.

    In this case to translate the 'anche perche' as 'also because' would indicate that another reason had already been given.

    In this case it could I believe be translated as 'Not least because/The main reason being/One reason being/Partly because/In part because', etc etc.

    If this had been translated as 'also because' it would have left the reader asking the question 'also because of what?'. What other reasons are there?

    I believe that the Italian is conveying that this is the principal reason and 'also because' does not convey that.

    Comments welcome :)

    Little Jim
     
  49. Pat (√2)

    Pat (√2) Senior Member

    Italia
    Italiano
    Ciao :)

    Non direi il motivo principale (sarebbe stato "soprattutto/principalmente/ecc. perché..."), ma uno dei motivi.
     
  50. Little Jimmy Senior Member

    Manchester, United Kingdom
    English - England
    Hi,

    In that case, would 'one reason being', be the best fit?

    Kind regards

    Jim
     

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