Andare as an auxiliary in the passive voice

Discussion in 'Italian-English' started by Pasquale Gatto, Apr 23, 2011.

  1. Pasquale Gatto

    Pasquale Gatto Senior Member

    Pennsylvania, USA
    English USA
    Ciao a tutti,

    Andare as an auxiliary in the "passive voice" can only be used in simple tenses, correct?

    Grazie in anticipo,

    PG
     
  2. Necsus

    Necsus Senior Member

    Formello (Rome)
    Italian (Italy)
    Hmm... could you give an example, Pasquale?
     
  3. Giorgio Spizzi Senior Member

    Italian
    No, not necessarily:
    "Queste lettere andavano inviate la settimana scorsa"
    "Queste, invece, andranno consegnate a mano"
    Best.
    GS
     
  4. giovannino

    giovannino Senior Member

    Italy
    Italian
    It depends on the verb following andare, PG. With a few verbs like (dis)perdere, distruggere, deludere it can be used in both simple and compound tenses:

    Tutti i manoscritti andarono/sono andati distrutti
    Ancora una volta le nostre speranze sono andate deluse

    Here the sense is something like "they ended up being destroyed/disappointed".

    However, with the vast majority of verbs the meaning of andare is that something ought to be done. In this case it can only be used in simple tenses.

    Le leggi vanno rispettate = Laws should be abided by

    I libri vanno restituiti entro 30 giorni = Books should be returned within 30 days

    La legge andrà riscritta di sana pianta = The law will have/need to be redrafted from scratch
     
  5. Giorgio Spizzi Senior Member

    Italian
    Sorry, Pasqua.
    My mistake: I did read your "simple tenses", but for some reasons I interpreted it as "simple presents".
    Best.
    GS
     
  6. Alxmrphi Senior Member

    Reykjavík, Ísland
    UK English
    Can you use finire as an auxiliary-like verb in the passive.
    When I read "ended up being destroyed" I wondered if it was possible to say:

    Tutti i manoscritti finivano / sono finiti distrutti.

    ? Actually, looking at it written down makes me doubt it's possible for some reason.
     
  7. Giorgio Spizzi Senior Member

    Italian
    Hi, Alx.
    Good intuition. I think "Tutti i documenti finirono con l'essere distrutti nell'/dall'incendio" is perfectly standard Italian.
    Best.
    GS
     
  8. giovannino

    giovannino Senior Member

    Italy
    Italian
    Yes, Alex, you can use a past participle after finire. An example from Devoto Oli:

    Ha fatto tanto per gli altri per poi finire abbandonato

    In this example andare wouldn't work, though I can't explain why -- maybe because its use is restricted to only a handful of verbs. I also get the impression that there is more of a passive meaning with andare (andarono distrutti = got destroyed), whereas with finire the emphasis is on the end result and the past participle is more like an adjective.
     
  9. Alxmrphi Senior Member

    Reykjavík, Ísland
    UK English
    Thanks guys :D
     
  10. Pasquale Gatto

    Pasquale Gatto Senior Member

    Pennsylvania, USA
    English USA
    Amico mio,

    Unfortunately I didn't have an example. My book states that venire can only be used with simple tenses but does not go into detail about andare. Giovannino's example helped me a lot. Grazie.

    Giorgio,

    Even though you originally misread my post these examples still help me with my learning. Grazie.

    Giovannino,

    Thank you very much. This really helps!

    PG
     

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