Anglosas

Discussion in 'Polski (Polish)' started by LilianaB, Dec 28, 2012.

  1. LilianaB Senior Member

    US New York
    Lithuanian
    I was just wondering what the proper use of this word in Polish is, these day? Can it ever refer to an English-speaker from any of the English-speaking countries. No special context, other than the word being used to refer to an English speaking person from one of those countries. I am interested in all the correct uses of the word.
     
  2. dreamlike

    dreamlike Senior Member

    Poland
    Polish
    It's virtually non-existent (except perhaps when used humorously) outside history books. Obviously, it could not be used jocularly in reference to every speaker of English from any of the English-speaking countries.
    Why would we refer to an American as 'Anglosas'? It would make little sense.
     
  3. LilianaB Senior Member

    US New York
    Lithuanian
    Well -- I have seen it quite often used by some aspiring linguists. How would people refer these days to English-speaking people from England, the United States or Australia, for example? (in Polish)
     
  4. dreamlike

    dreamlike Senior Member

    Poland
    Polish
    There's no generic term I could use, other than 'anglojęzyczni', I think. If I heard someone refer to the Americans or Aussies as 'anglosasi', I'd be astounded :eek: I'd probably think that the person is not very knowledgeable in history. Historically, the word cannot be used this way, but maybe those aspiring linguists gave the word a new meaning...

    edit: Here's what I found on wikipedia:

    I can't say I've noticed this in Polish, but I might not be up to date on the matter.
     
    Last edited: Dec 28, 2012
  5. LilianaB Senior Member

    US New York
    Lithuanian
    Thank you, Dreamlike. I was really confused how this word is used these days.
     
  6. R.O

    R.O Senior Member

    Polish
    I've always used this term for all English-speaking people.
     
  7. dreamlike

    dreamlike Senior Member

    Poland
    Polish
    That's curious! I'm looking forward to reading more opinions. It would seem that I was unfamiliar with that usage.
     
  8. marco_2 Senior Member

    Poland
    Polish
    I also agree with Wikipedia definition that "(...) Współcześnie termin "Anglosasi" używany bywa także /.../ na oznaczenie wspólnoty narodów, wywodzących się od plemion angielskich (np. Anglików, Australijczyków i Amerykanów)".
     
  9. LeTasmanien

    LeTasmanien Senior Member

    Gmina Karczew, Poland
    English British
    It would be entirely incorrect to describe Australians as Anglo-Saxon.
    Australia is a multi-cultural society with a large proportion of its population being either Europeans or direct descendents of Europeans.
    For example, there are many people with a Celtic background (like me!).
    The same goes for the USA.
    The term Anglo-Saxon should only be used when referring to the English.
     
  10. dreamlike

    dreamlike Senior Member

    Poland
    Polish
    I wholeheartedly agree with you, but whether we like it or not, some people are pretty lax about it, as shown by wikipedia entries and some posts in this thread. I think there's nothing for us to do but to accept it. Language at its finest... ;)
     
  11. R.O

    R.O Senior Member

    Polish
    It would also be entirely incorrect to describe a situation when two planes almost collide as a near miss. Nonetheless, that's what people call it, and not for example a... near hit. ;)
     
  12. kknd Senior Member

    Polska / Poland
    polski / Polish
    i guess anglophone would be much more precise for that… (you also seem to speak english but you're not an anglo-saxon.)
     
  13. LeTasmanien

    LeTasmanien Senior Member

    Gmina Karczew, Poland
    English British
    Some care should be taken when quoting from Wiki.
    The extract...
    "Outside Anglophone countries, both in Europe and in the rest of the world, the term "Anglo-Saxon" and its direct translations are used to refer to the Anglophone peoples and societies of Britain, the United States, and other countries such as Australia, Canada and New Zealand...."
    is a part of the section on "Contemporary Meanings" and you can see there that Wiki is asking for citations to support the assertions.

    I am sure that most of the of Australians that I know would probably think it silly/funny to described as Anglo-Saxons. Quite probably some would take offence!
     
  14. LilianaB Senior Member

    US New York
    Lithuanian
    Well, I personally haven't heard, for the last twenty five years at least, Anglo-Saxon being used in reference to English speaking people (from English speaking countries). I have heard it, or rather saw it more often in the written form, used by many Polish people as Anglosas, anglosaski -- referring to the inhabitants of Britain, the United States and other English-speaking countries. For me an Anglo-Saxon is either a member of the Anglo-Saxon community of the 8th-11th centuries (roughly) or a speaker of Anglo-Saxon. :D
     
  15. R.O

    R.O Senior Member

    Polish
    I have never ever in my entire life heard the word anglophone used in Polish. :confused:

    Kknd, of course I'm not an Anglo-Saxon because I wasn't born in an English-speaking country (I'm Slavic, just for the record). That should be obvious, shouldn't it? I hope you didn't really understand my statement in this way. Or did you?
     
  16. LilianaB Senior Member

    US New York
    Lithuanian
    No, it might not be obvious, R.O -- ethnicity and language sometimes don't have anything in common. This is why some English-speaking people may object to being called Anglosasi. There are many Italian-Americans, Native American English speakers, Irish people, and many others in all the English speaking countries.
     
  17. R.O

    R.O Senior Member

    Polish
    In the light of Dreamlike's post and the definition from Wiki I don't see how it might not be obvious that it refers to people who speak English as a result of having been born in an English-speaking country and for whom English is the first language.
     
  18. LilianaB Senior Member

    US New York
    Lithuanian
    I was referring to something else, but never mind. So you believe this is a standard usage in Polish -- to refer to English-speaking people from English-speaking countries as Anglosasi? Would it also be used in books and newspaper articles the same way?
     
  19. dreamlike

    dreamlike Senior Member

    Poland
    Polish
    I, in turn, can't see why would we refer to English-speaking people of, say, mixed ethinicity as 'anglo-saxons'. Historically, this makes little, if any, sense -- and, as suggested by LeTasmenien, it might by frowned upon by some of the anglophones themselves. Speaking of which, I much prefer the word 'anglophones', but I can't say it's very widespread, either.

    Liliana, I wouldn't say it's a standard usage, it's the first time I hear about it, thanks to this very thread, but let's wait for more opinions.
     
  20. R.O

    R.O Senior Member

    Polish
    Yes, to my experience it is.
    I should think so. I'll try to do some research on it later.

    Dreamlike, maybe that's why I have only heard it in Poland, not abroad. ;)

    EDIT: Just to revise my standpoint on the topic, the noun anglosas has been mentioned here a few times... As a matter of fact, I don't think I've heard the noun used too often. It's the adjective anglosaski that I myself use and hear very often used to refer to English-speaking countries, especially the UK and the US.
     
    Last edited: Dec 29, 2012
  21. Thomas1

    Thomas1 Senior Member

    polszczyzna warszawska
    I agree that in Polish the term is used in reference to Englsh speaking countries; however, not always (the historical meaning of it apart).

    There is one wording that comes to mind and is a point in case here: kraje anglosaskie. It is used often enough in media that it should be known by the average Polish. Hearing it, I mainly think of three counries: the UK, the US and Australia. If I think more New Zeland comes to mind and vacilate about Canada.This may well be a personal thing, though.

    When I hear "Anglosas", the first thing I think of are the English, however. And I can't quite wrap my head around a wider scope of this term, but then again it might be a personal matter.
     
  22. Ben Jamin Senior Member

    Norway
    Polish
    The fact that a term is based on a false assumption or an incorrect theory is almost never an obstacle for using it by general public or even by scholars. Take for example the word "turkey".
     
  23. dreamlike

    dreamlike Senior Member

    Poland
    Polish
    Not so long ago Mitt Romney has been taken to task for speaking of an 'Anglo-saxon heritage' shared by the US and the UK. John Swaine made an interesting point about it in this article, similar to that of LeTasmanien from post #9.

    Clearly, when using the word 'anglo-saxon', be it a verb or a noun, caution is advised.
     
    Last edited: Dec 29, 2012
  24. LeTasmanien

    LeTasmanien Senior Member

    Gmina Karczew, Poland
    English British
    Well put.
     
  25. LilianaB Senior Member

    US New York
    Lithuanian
    Well heritage, perhaps -- this is how the English language started after all. It is used in a different way in Polish, though -- the way I keep hearing it: it just means a person from Great Britain or the US -- this is why I was surprised.
     
  26. Thomas1

    Thomas1 Senior Member

    polszczyzna warszawska
    Just for the record:
     
  27. kknd Senior Member

    Polska / Poland
    polski / Polish
    just for the record—it's anglofon.
     
  28. R.O

    R.O Senior Member

    Polish
    That's what I meant. :)
     
  29. Ben Jamin Senior Member

    Norway
    Polish
    I haven´t heard it either.
    Anglosas about the British and the US citizens as a collecive term has been used, though not extensively, mostly colloquial.
     
  30. dreamlike

    dreamlike Senior Member

    Poland
    Polish
    Well, the same is true for me, and I'd be interested to know if it's used in, for example, academic writing. The only instances of this word in Polish, judging by Google results, are dictionary entries.. a Polish version of Google nGram would come in handy here...
     
    Last edited: Jan 2, 2013
  31. Mikelt New Member

    Well, we can't deny that word "Anglosas" is lexically correct, however, not only is it very rarely used, but its singular form is quite uncommon and it's present more often as plural "Anglosasi". That's how I see it.
     
  32. LilianaB Senior Member

    US New York
    Lithuanian
    What do you mean by lexically correct, Miklet? Would you refer to Eddie Murphy as Anglosas, for example? So what does the word mean in fact in Polish? This word is used differently in Polish than its English equivalent (or alleged equivalent), I think. In English one of the meanings is a member of the Anglo-Saxon culture, or English culture, but no-one call any particular individuals, inhabitants of the 21st world Anglo-Saxons.
     
    Last edited: Jan 5, 2013
  33. Mikelt New Member

    I mean this word exists in language, but the frequency of its use towards the natives of English-speaking countries is low. I wouldn't call him Anglosas, because I just don't use this word in this context, although I accept the fact it can be used in that way.

    Historically, term Anglosasi in Polish describes the tribes which settled in the British isles, so this meaning seems to be very common with its English equivalent.
     
  34. LilianaB Senior Member

    US New York
    Lithuanian
    Thank you.
     
  35. Mikelt New Member

    I wish we had some linguist-historian here because I don't consider myself as an authority in these fields :)
     
  36. LilianaB Senior Member

    US New York
    Lithuanian
    Yes, someone like a devoted Polish philologist would be great, from time to time. :)
     

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