Arabic "funduq"

Discussion in 'Etymology, History of languages and Linguistics (EHL)' started by Arabus, Nov 29, 2008.

  1. Arabus Senior Member

    United States
    Arabic-Aleppo
    Hi,

    It has been said that the Arabic word funduq "hotel" comes from Greek. Can anyone think of a Greek word similar to Pondoc > funduq that might have given the Arabic word.

    Thanks,
     
  2. olivia vava Junior Member

    sueco
    Maybe the word Πανδοχείο (pandochío). But I not quite sure.
    Any other sugestions?
     
  3. Arabus Senior Member

    United States
    Arabic-Aleppo
    If this is a classical word then it is certainly the one ... great, thanks ...
     
  4. orthophron Senior Member

    Greek
    I do not know if the Greek word "foundouki" has any connection with the Arabic word for hotel. I'll just cite its etymology and all its rout.
    Pontos (Greek word for "sea") > pontikos (adj).
    "Pontikon karuon" is a nut of Pontos*, the hazel nut > findik (Turkish) > foundouki (Greek).

    *Pontos stands for Black Sea.
     
    Last edited: Nov 30, 2008
  5. palomnik Senior Member

    Vietnam
    English
    A quick check of Lane's Lexicon indicates that it comes originally from the Greek πανδοχειον, via Farsi. Interestingly enough, it also mentions that ﻓﻨﺪﻕ
    means "hazelnut."

    Or at least that's what Lane's sources thought. I can't find the word πανδοχειον in any Greek dictionaries online, but my Greek is pretty rusty, and I don't know modern Greek at all. I'm sure one of our more competent foreros can expand on this.
     
  6. Frank06

    Frank06 Senior Member

    Nederlands / Dutch (Belgium)
    Hi,

    My (Classical) Greek dictionary gives πανδοκεῖον (inn, ATT, KOIN), with -δοχ- as alternative form.

    Groetjes,

    Frank
     
  7. Aoyama Senior Member

    川崎市、巴里 (黎)
    仏(佛)法語צרפתית Clodoaldien
    Food for thought, the word is also used in French, as fondouq, sometimes fondouk (or also some slightly different spellings).
    It may not come from Greek but from Latin :
    Lat. médiév. funda (901 ds Latin-ital. Med. Aev.), fundicum (av. 1138 en Italie ds [SIZE=-2]NIERM.[/SIZE]), fondacum (1150 ds [SIZE=-2]PELLEGR.[/SIZE], Arab., p. 426), a. esp. alfóndega (1033 ds [SIZE=-2]COR.[/SIZE], s.v. alhóndiga). L'ar. funduq/fundaq avait déjà donné fonde en a. fr. (ca 1200 Assises de Jérusalem II, 171 [ms. [SIZE=-2]XIV[/SIZE]e s.] cité par Arveiller ds op. cit., p. 473) et fondique en m. fr.
     
    Last edited: Dec 1, 2008
  8. Mahaodeh Senior Member

    Arabic and English
    There is in Arabic a sort of connection between hotel and hazlenut; the former is fonduk and latter is bunduk - it may be that the P turned to F for hotel and B for hazelnut.

    This is very interesting. I thought both were Farsi; apparently not.
     
  9. palomnik Senior Member

    Vietnam
    English
    I suspect that the French usage of fondouk came from the French colonization in North Africa. Or if it did come from Latin, it was reinforced by contact with the Arabs.
     
  10. Aoyama Senior Member

    川崎市、巴里 (黎)
    仏(佛)法語צרפתית Clodoaldien
    Though it is true that many Maghreban Arabic words found their way into French after 1830, this one is much much older.
    But it may be an example of a "round-trip" word, who came from Latin, changed in Arabic, and went back to French (and other European languages).
    I guess it may be linked to the Lingua Franca used in the Mediterranean, from the time of the Crusaders.
    The dating is circa 11th century ...
     
    Last edited: Dec 1, 2008
  11. Arabus Senior Member

    United States
    Arabic-Aleppo
    Hi,

    Like Maha said, "hazlenuts" appear in Arabic as bunduq whereas "hotel" is funduq.

    French dictionaries define fondouk in a way that makes it clear that this word comes from the colonization period in North Africa.
     
  12. Aoyama Senior Member

    川崎市、巴里 (黎)
    仏(佛)法語צרפתית Clodoaldien
    Really ? Which dictionary/ies ?
    The quote in my post #7 comes from the TLF (Trésor de la Langue Française), available on line. You can clearly see the dates mentioned.
     
  13. Arabus Senior Member

    United States
    Arabic-Aleppo
    I looked in some online dictionaries and they say things like:

    "endroit où se tient le marché, entrepôt des marchandises dans les pays arabes"

    They all say "Arabe" or "North African."
     
  14. Abu Bishr Senior Member

    Afrikaans, South Africa
    Hi everybody

    What is interesting is that in Afrikaans we use the word "pondok" to refer to a 'hut' or 'shelter' of some sort but in a slightly perjorative sense. It must have come to Afrikaans not via Dutch but via Malayu that was spoken by the Indonesians that were brought to South Afrika as exiles or slaves from the the Indonesian Archipelago. Whether its originally Indonesian or from the Arabic "funduq" that got its way into Malayu, I'm not certain. But what is interesting is that the word ended up in South Africa.

    An online source says that the word "pondok" or its diminutive "pondokkie" is used in South Africa for 'hut' or 'shelter' but that its origin is uncertain.

    Most of what I've expressed above are mere hunches, and subject to confirmation.
     
  15. palomnik Senior Member

    Vietnam
    English
    Interesting indeed. But then the word "kaffir" is ultimately from Arabic too.
     
  16. nejikun New Member

    Albanian
    If I am not wrong the word "πανδοχείο" in Greek means exactly "inn". I suppose it derives from παν- which means all, everything and δοχείο which means "vat" the container for liquids.
     
    Last edited: Dec 9, 2008
  17. robbie_SWE

    robbie_SWE Senior Member

    Sweden
    Trilingual: Swedish, Romanian & English
    Not trying to let this thread drift further away from its original scope, but in Romanian we have the word funduc.

    Funduc was apparently a Turkish coin made of gold used during the 18th and 19th century in Romania during the Ottoman rule.

    Might there be a connection?

    :) robbie
     
  18. Mahaodeh Senior Member

    Arabic and English
    Is that modern or Classical Greek? and, if you don't mind, can you please translitrate that to English?
     
  19. apmoy70

    apmoy70 Senior Member

    Greek
    Both classical and modern.
    Classical: Πανδοχεῖον-->Pandokhee*on
    Modern: Πανδοχείο-->Pandokhee*o (bold suggests the stress)
    *Pronounced as in eel
     
  20. ahshav Senior Member

    English, Hebrew
    I always thought it came from Hebrew - Pundak פונדק, or do they both come from Greek. Anyone know about the origin of the Hebrew word?
     
  21. Mr.Slade Junior Member

    U.S. English
    Even-Shoshan's Hebrew dictionary says it comes from the Greek pandokeion, previously cited.
     

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