Arabic & Urdu: باقی (plural forms)

Discussion in 'Indo-Iranian Languages' started by Alfaaz, Jan 27, 2013.

  1. Alfaaz Senior Member

    English
    Background:
    واحد
    باقی/ بقیہ
    ?
    خبر
    News (singular)
    دوا
    Medicine
    جمع
    باقیات
    بقایا /
    ?
    اخبار
    News (plural) & Newspaper
    ادویہ
    Medicines
    جمع در جمع
    بقایا
    ?
    اخبارات
    Newspapers
    ادویات
    ?
    جمع در جمع در جمع
    بقایاجات
    X

    The table above is a summary from a discussion about why baqaayaa-jaat would be considered wrong.

    The خبر and دوا columns have been added here for comparison. The خبر column seems to have clear translations and usages, but the others don't seem as clear.

    Questions: Are the patterns listed above (for باقی) correct? What would the translations and/or usages be for this column of words/plurals?

    • What would be the difference between باقی and بقیہ , between باقیات and بقایا ?
      • or should these be considered separate rather than a group?
     
    Last edited: Jan 27, 2013
  2. marrish Senior Member

    اُردو Urdu
    What an interesting post with good prospects.

    baqaayaa is already a plural word and it is how it is used in Urdu, always with a plural verb conjugation.
    baqaayaa-jaat might still add a sense of an ''expanded plural'' if the users do not longer consider baqaayaa as a plural form due to obvious reasons.

    baaqii is mostly considered an adjective for the purposes of Urdu.
     
  3. Qureshpor Senior Member

    Punjabi, Urdu پنجابی، اردو
    Let me put on my "Arabic hat" now!

    "baaqii" is the active participle and could safely be translated as "remaining" but,as you would appreciate, there are other associated meanings too.

    balance/remainder; alive/exsisting (baaqii nikaalnaa = to subtract)

    "baaqiyaat" (plural of baaqii)--arrears, remnants/balance

    "baqiiyah" (sg), "baqaayaa" (pl) The meaning for both is quite similar to one aspect of "baaqii", that is "arrears/remainder/balance".

    "baqaayah", as far as I understand is used in the singular sense, even though grammatically it is a plural of "baqiiyah". So, "baqaayaa-jaat" would n't be wrong. At worst, it is not jam3 dar jam3 dar jam3 but only jam3 dar jam3.

    aap ke paas kitne paise baaqii bache haiN?

    baaqii saaqii sharaab de de! (gulzaar-i-Nasiim)

    bi-dih saaqii may-i-baaqii kih dar jannat nah xvaahii yaaft (Hafiz)

    aap ko mujhe das hazaar rupaiyah denaa thaa jis meN se aap ne paaNch hazaar de diyaa. baqaayaa rahaa paaNch hazaar.

    shukriyah janaab, aap ne is maHfil meN itnii achchhii Ghazal pesh kii. baqiyah* saat ash3aar kaa kyaa hu'aa?

    * I think in Urdu, we don't say "baqiiyah", but I could be wrong.
     
    Last edited: Jan 27, 2013
  4. rc2 Junior Member

    US
    India - Telugu
    Quresh-por sahab aadaab,

    Just curious -- is there a spelling difference between "baqiyah" as you stated it, and the "baqiiyah" as listed in the dictionary?

    P بقيه baqīya (for A. بقية baqīyat), s.m. Remainder, remnant, residue, balance, &c. (=bāqī, q.v.):—baqīyatuʼs-saif, s.m. The remnant left by the sword.

    Curiously, I could not find just a "baqiyah" (shortened i sound) in the dictionary? I have not heard people pronounce the word "baqiiyah" in Urdu as you -- but I now wonder if "baqiyah" is just a "Ghalat.ul.'aam" pronounciation of the real word?

    RC
     
  5. Alfaaz Senior Member

    English
    Thanks for the detailed answers!
     
  6. Qureshpor Senior Member

    Punjabi, Urdu پنجابی، اردو
    And thank you for your "shrunken" appreciation!:)
     
  7. marrish Senior Member

    اُردو Urdu
    Thank you too for having posed the question.

    I think it is the property of TNR that it appears so tiny on the screen.
     
  8. Qureshpor Senior Member

    Punjabi, Urdu پنجابی، اردو
    As you no doubt are already aware, the word in question is written so..بقیہ ..on the same pattern as زکیہ and رضیہ.

    All these are actually baqiiyah, zakiiyah and raziiyah but I do believe they end up being pronounced as baqiyah, zakiyah and raziyah by at least some people. So, technically speaking, these would be Ghalatu_l3aam pronunciations.
     
  9. cherine

    cherine Moderator

    Alexandria, Egypt
    Arabic (Egypt).
    Just in case anyone is interested, the correct pronunciation in Arabic is baqiyya (short "i" after ق and stressed ي). Check the Qur'an, chapter/surat 2, verse 248:


    وَقَالَ لَهُمْ نِبِيُّهُمْ إِنَّ آيَةَ مُلْكِهِ أَن يَأْتِيَكُمُ ٱلتَّابُوتُ فِيهِ سَكِينَةٌ مِّن رَّبِّكُمْ وَبَقِيَّةٌ مِّمَّا تَرَكَ آلُ مُوسَىٰ وَآلُ هَارُونَ

     
  10. Qureshpor Senior Member

    Punjabi, Urdu پنجابی، اردو
    Thank you Cherine for your input. Without wishing to digress too much, these words are on the pattern of fa3iil/ah.

    So, slotting in consonants and vowels in the appropriate order, we get..

    fa3iilah
    baqiiyah

    The l in fa3iilah is the y (consonant) in baqiiyah. As you are well aware, the -ii sound is represented by a kasra +y. Therefore, one could transliterate "baqiiyah" as baqiyyah (as you have done) where the first y (a semi vowel) with the preceding i forms the long vowel and the second y is a full consonant. The y in the Arabic script can therefore carry a tashdiid because of the two ys coming together. The tashdiid is there not to double the y consonant (because there is only one y serving as a consonant) but to signify the two juxtaposed ys. From the point of view of clearer transliteration I prefer to write this vowel + consonant combination as "-iiy".
     
    Last edited: Feb 7, 2013

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