Aramaic: you live by the sword, you die by the sword

Discussion in 'Other Languages' started by MC416, Sep 18, 2012.

  1. MC416 New Member

    English
    I'm sorry, but I googled which language is closer to Aramaic and hebrew is said to be closer related than Arabic is. I just desperately need a phrase translated and in the Aramaic writing for an art project. So the phrase is "you live by the sword, you die by the sword" please help me out, anything is greatly appreciated. Thanks
     
  2. origumi Senior Member

    Hebrew
    Open issues: what Aramaic variant (the language is documented for 3000 years) and what script. My attempt below is for Aramaic of around Jesus time, in modern Hebrew/Aramaic font which is somewhat similar to the one used those days. Maybe someone can convert it to older fonts, for example those of the Dead Sea Scrolls here: http://www.historian.net/files.htm.

    את
    חי לפתגם דחרב, את מאית לפתגם דחרב

    The same, with Hebrew punctuation marks (I guess you don't need it)
    אַתְּ חַי לְפִתְגָם דְּחָרֶב, אַתְּ מָאִית לְפִתְגָם דְּחָרֶב

    The Latin transcription is: at mait lefitgam dekharev, at khai lefitgam dekharev.

    Aramaic is not my native language so I glanced to the Unkalos Aramaic Bible. Specifically Genesis 9:3, Genesis 20:3, Genesis 34:26.
     
    Last edited: Sep 18, 2012
  3. airelibre

    airelibre Senior Member

    English - London
    Have you intentionally swapped the order of the "live" and "die" phrases in the Aramaic?
    Post corrected.
     
    Last edited: Sep 18, 2012
  4. MC416 New Member

    English
    Perfect, thank you so much!
     
  5. MC416 New Member

    English
    is it incorrect?
     
  6. airelibre

    airelibre Senior Member

    English - London
    Perhaps not, it may flow better with the order of phrases given but I'm just checking that it is not a mistake.
    Post Corrected
     
    Last edited: Sep 18, 2012
  7. airelibre

    airelibre Senior Member

    English - London
    Apparently the phrase comes from the Gospel of Matthew (26:52). I've tried to find the Aramaic translation for it but have not been lucky so far. However the Hebrew is מי שחי בחרב ימות בחרב.
     
  8. fdb Senior Member

    Cambridge, UK
    French (France)
    ܟܠܗܘܢ ܓܝܪ ܗܢܘܢ ܕܢܤܒܘ ܤܝܦܐ ܒܤܝܦܐ ܢܡܘܬܘܢ
    Thus in the Syriac translation of Matt. 26:52. (I hope the Syriac letters show up on your screen).
     
  9. fdb Senior Member

    Cambridge, UK
    French (France)
    Syriac being the "dialect" of Aramaic used by the Christians in Syria, Iraq etc.
     
  10. MC416 New Member

    English
    Unfortunately it didn't show up, thank you for your help though.
    Also thanks to everyone else, I really appreciate it. If someone could just point me to the best example in this thread and I will use that. Thanks again.
     
  11. airelibre

    airelibre Senior Member

    English - London
    Personally, I find the Syriac script very beautiful, and we can be sure it is correct, since the phrase is taken from an actual aramaic source (not to say that your translation is incorrect origumi!). If you can install a compatibility file or a syriac font file on your computer (just do a google search) you will be able to see fdb's post. If you can't install a font compatibility file, perhaps you will still be able to see the phrase on this website: http://www.peshitta.org/ click interlinear nt, mattai, 26, then scroll down to 52.

    I'm not an Aramaic speaker so just to make sure, does anybody know if the first two words in the syriac phrase are necessary or if they come from the previous part of the sentence? I read them as 'all' and 'for', and the following 'they who take up swords by swords will die' makes sense without them in English.
     
  12. origumi Senior Member

    Hebrew
    The Syriac version כלהון גיר הנון דנסבו סיפא בסיפא נמותון (as fdb cites, with a minor difference, apparently among different codices) can be literally translated to: all those who take sword, in sword shall die.

    כלהון = all, כולם
    גיר = [those] who (from Greek γάρ = γε + ἄρα), אשר
    הנון = they, הם
    דנסבו = that took, שלקחו
    סיפא = sword, סיף
    נמותון = shall die, ימותו
     
  13. MC416 New Member

    English
    Wow, thank you all so much for your help. Very interesting forum.
     
  14. airelibre

    airelibre Senior Member

    English - London
    This is very interesting. Do you have the nikkudot for the Aramaic?
     
  15. fdb Senior Member

    Cambridge, UK
    French (France)
    Here it is with Eastern Syriac vocalisation:

    ܟܼ݁ܠܗܘܿܢ ܓܹ݁ܝܪ ܗܵܢܘܿܢ ܕ݁ܲܢܣܲܒ݂ܘ ܣܲܝܦ݂ܹܐ ܒ݁ܣܲܝܦ݂ܹܐ ܢܡܘܿܬ݂ܘܿܢ
    kollhōn gēr hānōn da-nsaḇ saypē b-saypē nmōṯōn

    Litterally: "For all those who took the swords will die by the swords."
     
    Last edited: Sep 19, 2012
  16. origumi Senior Member

    Hebrew
    I don't know if anyone bothered to add Hebrew Tiberian nikkud to the Aramaic NT. The Eastern / Aramaic churches must have a tradition for the original pronunciation, but I don't know how they preserve it in writing.

    ...

    Added: According to fdb's post they do it with Syriac punctuation.
     
  17. fdb Senior Member

    Cambridge, UK
    French (France)
    Yes, there are two different systems to mark the vowels and other unwritten features of Syriac pronunciation. The Western Syrians (Jacobites and Maronites) use a system based on Greek vowel signs, and the Eastern Syrians (Nestorians) have a system using dots above and below the letters. This is illustrated in no. 15.
     
  18. shaliach Junior Member

    English - U.S.A.
    As has been pointed out there has not been a unified dialect of Aramaic through history, let alone modern/neo-Aramaic. The ancient peshitta which is in Syriac, a dialect of Aramaic, translates Matthew 26:52 as; "הָידֵּין אֵמַר לֵה יֵשׁוּע אַהפֵּכ סַפסִרָא לדוּכּתָה כֻּלהוּן גֵּיר הָנוּן דַּנסַבו סַיפֵא בּסַיפֵא נמוּתוּן"

    "hāydēn ᵓemmar leh yešūᶜ ᵓahpeḵ sapsirrā ləḏūkṯāh kulhūn gēr hānūn dansaḇ(w) saypē bəsaypē nəmūṯūn"

    Source: http://www.dukhrana.com/peshitta/index.php
     

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