Argentine/Argentinian/Argentinean

Discussion in 'Spanish-English Vocabulary / Vocabulario Español-Inglés' started by coquita, Jun 21, 2006.

  1. coquita Senior Member

    Far, far away from home...
    Español (Argentina)
    Hi everybody,

    I thought that if somebody was born in Argentina, he's "Argentinian" and that "Argentine" was used when talking about things from Argentina (i.e.: Argentine wine), but then I found "Argentinian tango", so now I'm confused.

    Is it the same in American English than in British English?

    Thanks:)
     
  2. la_mas_deseada Senior Member

    United Statesian born and raised
    I believe that Argentinian is the most approrpriate adjective for a person or any object. But at least in colloquial usage, both can be considered correct. I used to call people argentines, but now have reformed to argentinians. expect to hear the latter more often. Use either one you like better, keeping in mind that, at least here, argintinian sounds more correct.
    Saludos
     
  3. coquita Senior Member

    Far, far away from home...
    Español (Argentina)
    Thanks a lot!
    Saludos:)
     
  4. AnaBanana Junior Member

    English, US
    Quisiera saber (sobre todo quisiera una respuesta de los argentinos) si les molestaria cuando un estadounidense usa la palabra "Argentinian". Segun los diccionarios que tengo, la forma correcta es "Argentine" en ingles, pero adivinaria que la mayoria de las personas que conozco yo dice(n)?? "Argentinian."

    Favor de corregirme los errores para que aprenda mas.
     
  5. aleCcowaN Senior Member

    Castellano - Argentina
    Las dos formas están bien en su lado correspondiente del Atlántico. Yo uso una u otra según la nacionalidad de mi interlocutor. No hay ninguna posibilidad de ofendernos porque se use una u otra forma.

    Y muy bien escrito lo tuyo (la n entre paréntesis, va)

    Un saludo desde la Argentine Republic (o Argentinian Republic?), o será la Republic of Argentina, o Republic of the Argentinian, ¡ma sí! desde la Argentina ( o será Argentina)

    Somos como Madonna, con tal que hablen de nosotros, digan lo que quieran :D
     
  6. Edwin

    Edwin Senior Member

    Tampa, Florida, USA
    USA / Native Language: English
    Hmm. ¿La forma correcta como sustantivo o adjetivo? ¿De cuales diccionarios estas hablando? Para mi "The Argentine" es una anticuada manera de decir "Argentina" (el país) y tambien puede ser "Argentine" una forma adjetiva del país. Muchos y quizás todos los diccionarios "online" digan que el nombre de una persona de Argentina es " an Argentinian" y la forma adjetiva es "Argentine" o "Argentinian".
    Mira esto enlaces: "Argentinian" "Argentine"
     
  7. RoRo_en_el_foro Senior Member

    Español Argentina
    Bueno en primer lugar, por supuesto que no puede ser ofensivo, de ninguna manera. De hecho acá no se habla tanto inglés como les hacen creer ahí afuera, de hecho casi nadie sabe inglés en realidad, así que tampoco podrían ofenderse de todas formas.
    Con respecto a "la forma correcta", habría que ver en el diccionario, pero yo siempre lo usé así (si te sirve de algo):
    - I am from Argentina.
    - I am argentinian.
    - Argentine people.
    No quiere decir que eso esté bien, simplemente así lo decimos cuando tenemos que hablar en inglés.

    Ah por cierto, la wikipedia también la llama "argentine people".
     
  8. julian_inchauspe New Member

    Argentina, Spanish lang.
    According the Cambridge International Dictionary of English Language, you can use any of these three terms: Argentine, Argentinean or Argentinian both for people and as an adjective.
    'Argentine' was the original British term for both people and things. But Americans introduced later the word 'Argentinean' or 'Argentinian' copying the suffix -ean from other countries of the region (Chilean, Brazilean, Ururguayean, etc.). Nowadays, most people in America would use the word 'Argentinian' not only as adjective but also to refer to people.
    In Britain, I guess that most people would say 'Argentine' for both things, but there are many who are now using 'Argentinean'.
    It is a matter of tastes.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 23, 2012
  9. serg79_ Senior Member

    English
    I think that Julian has summed it up nicely.
    Personally speaking, I would use "Argentine" for things and "Argentinian" (I don' think I've seen it spelt as "Argentinean" in the UK) for people, although I'm not sure why.
     
  10. andym Senior Member

    London
    English - England
    Julian

    I agree with your analysis, but I think 'Argentinean' is now probably the most commonly used word over here too.

    [edit D'Oh! What do I know! A quick Google of UK sites shows 'Argentine' well ahead of 'Argentinian' with 'Argentinean' way behind]
     
  11. lapachis8 Senior Member

    El Defectuoso
    Mexico-Spanish
    "No me hables de usted, no me hables de vos, hablame de mí."

    Argentinians o Argentines, el eguito es bien grande. Je, je.
    saludos
     
  12. Chessnia

    Chessnia Junior Member

    Sydney, Australia
    Spanish/Spain/Australia
    I don't mean to be picky or anything, I'm just an ignorant willing to learn, but I was wondering about mateitop's (who happens to be a native) use of "Argentine" as an adjective in that sentence. Are both Argentine and Argentinian correct when used as adjectives?
     
  13. Carrie2 Senior Member

    Spain
    English, UK
    Both are correct, but Argentinian is more common. Argentine sounds old-fashioned.

    This is for Britain, so it may be different in other English-speaking countries (although in this case I doubt it).
     
  14. Chessnia

    Chessnia Junior Member

    Sydney, Australia
    Spanish/Spain/Australia
    Thanks a lot, I love translating + Carrie2, your replies have been really helpful. :)
     
  15. Shuki24 Junior Member

    Spanish (Argentina)
    ¡Hola a todos!

    Me pregunto cual de las tres opciones es la correcta para la nacionalidad argentina en inglés. Estoy casi seguro que es "Argentine", y que "Argentinian" es para objetos o cosas. Y "Argentinean" la acabo de ver en un post, y me llamó mucho la atención. ; )

    ¡¡Desde ya muchas gracias!!

    Shuki
     
  16. LucianoGoAl

    LucianoGoAl Senior Member

    Español-Argentina
    Por lo que entendí toda la vida, Argentinean es "british" y Argentinian es "american". Igualmente no creo que a un native le importe demasiado ladiferencia, además de ser fonéticamente iguales :I

    Saludos!!!
     
  17. Basenjigirl Senior Member

    English, USA
    All three are used (as either an adjective or a noun) in English:
    Argentine
    Argentinean
    Argentinian

    I'm not aware of any rule that says one can only be used for objects and not for people and vice versa.
     
  18. Maju

    Maju Senior Member

    Mendoza- Argentina
    Argentina- Castellano
    Hola foreros!

    Hace años que tengo esta duda, cuál de esos gentilicios para referirse a un argentino es el más usado?

    Saludos! :)
    M.

    PS: más temprano consulté en otro hilo por la palabra "vitivinícola". Alguien me podrá ayudar? Gracias! :cool:
     
  19. nykta Senior Member

    USA; English
    Creo que oigo "Argentinean" más que los otros, pero "Argentine" es casi igualmente común. "Argentinian" no me parece la ortografía correcta.

    Pero no sé! Solo es mi percepción.
     
  20. Maju

    Maju Senior Member

    Mendoza- Argentina
    Argentina- Castellano
    Gracias Nykta! Sin embargo, acá en WR aparece como "Argentinian". Quizás así es en British English...
     
  21. Polopino Senior Member

    Spain
    British English
    http://www.thefreedictionary.com/Argentinian
     
  22. Maju

    Maju Senior Member

    Mendoza- Argentina
    Argentina- Castellano
    Thanks for the link Polopino. So, I guess both Argentine and Argentinian are interchangeable, and Argentinean is American English.
    Cheers!
     
  23. Anakin59

    Anakin59 Senior Member

    Argentina - castellano
    Entiendo que depende de lo que sea lo argentino.
    Si es una persona, es Argentinian
    si es un producto, es Argentine product.
     
  24. AndrewKincaid Senior Member

    English - USA
    Argentine is correct.
     
  25. Maju

    Maju Senior Member

    Mendoza- Argentina
    Argentina- Castellano
    Gracias por las respuestas, en especial a Fenixpollo por los enlaces. No sabía que ya se había hablado de esto, ya que en WR busqué "argentino" y apareció traducido como "Argentinian" y ninguno de los hilos que se mostraban allí nombraba este tema. Luego descubrí que los hilos se encontraban en la palabra "Argentine" ;)
    Saludos y muy buenas noches para todos!
    M.
     
  26. zumac Senior Member

    Mexico City
    USA: English & Spanish
    Estoy de acuerdo con Anakin.

    Una persona es Argentinian. Argentinean no existe.

    Un producto puede ser "an Argentine product" o "an Argentinian product."

    Algunos ingleses se suelen referir a la Argentina como "The Argentine".

    Saludos.
     
  27. AndrewKincaid Senior Member

    English - USA
    Not to be harsh, but for the purposes of the US government a person from Argentina is an "Argentine," not an "Argentinian." The word "Argentinian" does not exist in proper American English; it is a product of guesswork and errors.
     
  28. Anakin59

    Anakin59 Senior Member

    Argentina - castellano
    Nevertheless, in England I was called an Argentinian by the locals; it might be different in the US, though a client of mine there calls me that way too. Maybe it depends on where you are from?
     
  29. zumac Senior Member

    Mexico City
    USA: English & Spanish
    Andrew, I can't speak for the US government, but here's what Webster's dictionary says on the subject:
    ARGENTINE: adj. of Argentina, its people, or culture
    n. a native or inhabitant of Argentina. Also Argentinian.
    the Argentine [now chiefly Brit.] Argentina

    As you can see, Argentinian does exist in proper American English, given that Webster's is an American dictionary.

    Saludos.
     
  30. Escondido New Member

    Argentina - English/Spanish
    The proper way is Argentine.

    Argentinean is sometimes used and accepted (out of ignorance in my opinion) in the US, and the same goes for Argentinian in the UK.

    Over time word usage certainly changes, but it seems to me that after a period of diversification of terms, there has been a move (i.e. Wikipedia and forums like this) to unify the term to it's original form of "Argentine" (rhymes with Clementine).

    It doesn't make a difference if it's refering to people or things.

    Moritzchen said....
    May I ask why "the proper way is Argentine" and the other two are ignorant (terms)?

    By "proper" I mean that has been used in print for over a hundred years, for people or things.

    Even though Argentina had its independence in 1816, the country's name wasn't settled until 1860, and officially it can be referred as "Nacion Argentina" or "Republica Argentina". The British whom have had a big hand in the development of Argentina (including invading Buenos Aires twice), officially referred to it as "The Argentine Nation" or "The Argentine Republic", which colloquially was shortened to "The Argentine", but that term is now obsolete. The large English Speaking community in Argentina, which I grew up in, refers to itself as "Argentine" as far as I could always tell, I only heard the term "Argentinean" once I started traveling to the US and the UK, and only in the past couple of years "Argentinian." Note that these two variants are not accepted by all dictionaries. I believe these newer variants which came about by likening them to other demonyms due to the lack of knowledge (in my opinion) about the origin and development of Argentina's name and demonym.

    There's an old English saying, now obsolete, if not laughable, that goes "Rich as an Argentine".

    Here's a link to the official translation of the Argentine Constitution into English.

    senado.gov.ar/web/interes/constitucion/english.php

    Note the use of Argentine Nation, Argentine soil, Argentine people, Argentine citizens, etc.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 23, 2012
  31. huon Senior Member

    Folkestone/Madrid
    English (UK)
    It's an interesting one. So interesting that more than a year after the last post I find myself drawn to it.
    I find that myself (European English) I use both. But I tend to use Argentine as an adjective but Argentinan as a noun.
    So, "My girlfriend is Argentinian. She has an Argentine accent."
    I think the main reason for this is fluency. When an extra word is being used (as in Argentine accent,)it just becomes a lot of syllables to get ones tongue round.
    I may even be wrong about what is a noun or an adjective. As a native speaker who writes a lot I am a bit lax on the rules, which I see as only being there to be broken anyway. But fluency is king.
     
  32. Yael Senior Member

    US
    Argentina, Spanish
    A mí siempre me pareció que Argentine era un sustantivo, como Pole o Spaniard, y Argentinian/Argentinean un adjetivo, como Polish o Spanish. ¿No es así?
     
  33. Escondido New Member

    Argentina - English/Spanish
    En el caso de "Argentine" no es así. Se usa para ambos, ya sea sustantivo o adjetivo: ej. "I am Argentine" y "The Argentine economy has suffered through the years"

    He indagado bastante el tema, y a pesar de que un tiempo atrás se comenzó a usar (erróneamente) "Argentinean" y "Argentinian," históricamente siempre se ha sido "Argentine" el modo correcto.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Aug 4, 2008
  34. elirlandes

    elirlandes Senior Member

    Dublin & Málaga
    Ireland English
    Historically, the country has also been referred to in English as "the Argentine". This is still used by many. I guess it comes from the longer phrase "the Argentine Republic" = la Republica Argentina.
     
  35. InterpreterALE

    InterpreterALE Senior Member

    Paraná (& Rosario), Argentina
    (Argentinian) Spanish & Lunfardo (Rioplatense slang)
    I always call myself an Argentinian, at least for me, Argentine sounds correct but a little bit old-fashioned.

    Regarding Argentinean, it doesn't sound like a correct spelling and even in dictionary I've looking for the only two options are Argentine and Argentinian, the word Argentinean does not appear. About this you can compare with Brazilian, Peruvian, Bolivian (they are not Brazilean, Peruvean, or Bolivean), don't compare with Chilean because that comes from Chile+an. Brazil, Peru, Bolivia, Argentina don't end in e.
     
    Last edited: Dec 19, 2008
  36. Karla007

    Karla007 Junior Member

    Barcelona, Spain
    United States- Spanish and English
    I've looked over other threads related to this subject but it's not any clearer when I want to say for example:

    XXXX, of Argentine/Argentenean Nationality, born on XXX

    Which term is better in formal use?

    Thanks!
     
  37. pablo1 Junior Member

    Aberdeen
    scotland and english
    Personally i would say is of Argentinian nationality, but generally in english we would say He is Argentinian, or he is from Argentina!
     
  38. Karla007

    Karla007 Junior Member

    Barcelona, Spain
    United States- Spanish and English
    Yes, of course, I forgot to mention that my question was in regards to a power of attorney... :D Thank you!
     
  39. openingnight Senior Member

    spanish.latinAm
    Im agree with Pablo. AND we should add to this, ARGENTINIAN OR ARGENTINE NATIONALITY both forms are correct though it may not look it, because everybody says Argentinian ;)
     
  40. Basil Ganglia

    Basil Ganglia Senior Member

    Bellevue, WA
    English - USA
    The US legal documents with which I am familiar usually reference citizenship rather than nationality. That's because citizenship has a defined legal meaning. Thus I would expect to see a phrase "XXX, a citizen of Argentina, ...".

    If the reference is not to citizenship but to the location where a person was born or raised, then specific descriptive language would be used and would probably include a reference to current citizenship: "XXX, born in Argentina and now a US citizen, ...." or "XXX, of Argentinian origin and possessing dual US-Argentinian citizenship, ...".

    But in a legal document references to place of origin or place of birth would ordinarily not be included unless those facts are germane to the legal matter.
     
  41. soph! New Member

    Spanish- Argentina
    Hi! Puedo aportar desde mi humilde lugar de estudiante de traductorado público: como ya el nombre del país lo indica The Argentine Republic, Argentine es para cosas, por eso se debería decir (debería) Argentine Tango, Argentine Wines. Para personas, Argentinean o Argentinian (ésta última se usa con más frecuencia). Pero el idioma es lo que más rápido cambia y muchos usan todos indistintamente, esta es, una regla, que los hablantes toman o no...
    Saludos!!!
     
  42. anipol Senior Member

    Tigre, provincia de Buenos Aires
    Argentina - español
    Hola, soy argentina y pensaba que la diferencia entre Argentinian y Argentine era una cuestión de gusto del hablante y de dialecto geográfico. Por la regla que menciona Soph me interesa mucho. ¿Podrías contarnos más, Soph?
    Gracias,
    anipol
     
  43. WhiteTobi

    WhiteTobi Senior Member

    Buenos Aires
    Argentine Spanish
    Hola amigos!

    En un formulario donde dice "nacionalidad: argentina" en inglés
    ¿sería Argentine o Argentinean?

    El dicc dice que Argentine va seguido de noun… pero para mi es argentine aunque no esté seguido de noun…

    ¿Álguien está seguro al respecto?

    Gracias
     
  44. steemic

    steemic Senior Member

    Pitman, New Jersey
    English (US)
    Siempre he escuchado argentinean para refirirse a la gente de argentina.

    Un saludo.
     
  45. There was some discussion on this here but it was not very useful

    http://forum.wordreference.com/showthread.php?t=8674
    http://forum.wordreference.com/showthread.php?t=447220

    Some English language dictionaries list both forms as acceptable. In one of the earlier postings, this was considered a useful comment

    "According the Cambridge International Dictionary of the English Language, you can use any of these three terms: Argentine, Argentinean or Argentinian to refer to both people and things."
     
    Last edited: Aug 6, 2009
  46. fenixpollo

    fenixpollo Mod Chicken

    Arizona
    American English
    Tobi, todo depende de la preferencia personal de uno. A mí, lo más correcto es Argentine. No tengo ninguna conexión personal con Argentina... solamente suena mejor. Las otras opciones suenan rebuscadas y raras -- para mí, decir "Argentinean" suena igual de ridículo e inventado que decir "Argentinish". :rolleyes:
     
  47. Porteño Senior Member

    Buenos Aires
    British English
    Contrary to some of the opinions expressed, I personally have almost always used 'Argentinian' to describe the nationality and 'Argentine' as an adjective for everything else.

    I agree with those who say it's a matter of personal taste since none of the dictionaries are categorical about the various uses.
     
  48. vovodardo220 New Member

    Spanish
    hmmm....i have heard both and personally, i like argentine better. the other one is rather long and argentine is more pleasing to the ear.

    encima, siendo argentina, nose porque, pero cuando escucho argentinian me suena raro...al principio argentine me sono muy como q americanizado o algo, pero eso es lo que hacen los q hablan ingles y al final argentine suena mas elegante. no? :)
     
  49. Cpt_S_Jacob

    Cpt_S_Jacob Junior Member

    Portland, USA
    English - United States
  50. PibePorteno New Member

    English
     

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