Aspiration - wishing and breathing?

Discussion in 'All Languages' started by ThomasK, Mar 9, 2013.

  1. ThomasK Senior Member

    (near) Kortrijk, Belgium
    Belgium, Dutch
    Would you have a 'respiratory' parallel for longing (noun or verb --- aspiring for)?

    It took me a while to find it in Dutch: zucht (naar). Zuchten is related with sighing, but can as a noun be used to refer to a "maniacal" aspiration (anorexia = magerzucht, alcoholism = drankzucht, etc.).

    (The background was my search for primary syntacticosemantic relations, such as the need for food and water (hunger and thirst)... I then guessed the need for breath/ air was equally important. But I could not think of a word that referred to that and could be used metaphorically - until...
    zucht !)
     
    Last edited: Mar 10, 2013
  2. Encolpius

    Encolpius Senior Member

    Prague
    Hungarian
    Yes, in Hungarian. óhaj [noun], óhajt [verb]
     
  3. ThomasK Senior Member

    (near) Kortrijk, Belgium
    Belgium, Dutch
    Is it a very common one, and does it have some connotation? Is it the standard word for a wish?
     
  4. Encolpius

    Encolpius Senior Member

    Prague
    Hungarian
    The standard verb would be rather kíván, but óhajt is also a common verb. No connotation.
     
  5. bibax Senior Member

    Czech
    Czech:

    Besides other verbs we have dychtiti (from dech = breath, dýchati = to breathe). It means to pant (= to long for sth eagerly), to yearn for/after sth, to be desirous of sth.

    "Ústa svá otvírám a dychtím, nebo přikázaní tvých jsem žádostiv."  = I open my mouth and pant, because I long for your commandments. (Psalm 119:131)

    There is also vzdychati = to be sighing; vzdychati po = to be sighing for sb/sth.
    "Vzdychá po něm dnem i nocí." = She is sighing for him day and night.

    Both verbs are commonly used but they are not neutral.
     
    Last edited: Mar 10, 2013
  6. apmoy70

    apmoy70 Senior Member

    Greek
    Hi TK,

    Aspiring in Greek, is described by the adj. «επίδοξος, -ξη, -ξο» [e'piðoksos] (masc.), [e'piðoksi] (fem.), [e'piðokso] (neut.) < Classical adj. «ἐπίδοξος, -ος, -ον» ĕpídŏksŏs (masc. & fem.), ĕpídŏksŏn (neut.) --> of persons, likely/expected to turn out well, become glorious < compound, prefix and preposition «ἐπὶ» ĕpì --> upon, on, over, above (PIE *h₁epi/*h₁opi, near, at, against) + fem. noun «δόξα» dóksă --> expectation, opinion, judgement, later, splendour, glory; the secondary meanings, since the translation of the Hebrew scripture by the LXX into Hellenistic Greek; the 72 scholars, used «δόξα» dóksă 450 times, translating 25 different Hebrew words, the majority of these occurrences corresponds to the Hebrew word כבוד kavōdh (honour, splendor, power, glory). PIE *dek-, to take, accept, receive; cf Skt. दासति (dAsati), to give; Lat. docēre, to teach, tell, inform.
    Aspiration is:
    1/ «Επιδίωξη» [epi'ði.oksi] (fem.) --> aspiration, continued pursuit < Class. 3rd declension fem. noun «ἐπιδίωξις» ĕpĭdíōksis, cognate with the adj. «επίδοξος, -ξη, -ξο».
    2/ «Εισπνοή» [ispno'i] (fem.) --> inspiration, inhalation < Class. fem. noun «εἰσπνοὴ» eispnŏḕ < compound, prefix and preposition «εἰς» eis --> in, into + fem. noun «πνοὴ» pnŏḕ --> blowing, blast, breath (PIE *pneu-, to breathe, gasp cf Proto-Germanic *fneusanan > Ger. niese, Dutch niezen, Eng. sneeze).
    Thus, aspiration (continued pursuit) --> «επιδίωξη» aspiration (inhalation) --> «εισπνοή»
     
    Last edited: Mar 10, 2013
  7. ThomasK Senior Member

    (near) Kortrijk, Belgium
    Belgium, Dutch
    Interesting link Czech-Dutch: sighing and wishing.

    @apmoy: I see, no link indeed, then. Could I say that /edidokson/ has to do with thinking mainly? I just checked on wishing via Babylon translations, and I get: επιθυμώ, εύχομαι. Are those correct? Do they refer to a link? somehow?

    The beginning of ps. 45 led me to two more translations:
    - German: lechzen might imply heavy breathing too...
    - English: to pant seems to suggest 'to breathe rapidly in short gasps, as after exertion' and 'to long for'...
     
    Last edited: Mar 10, 2013
  8. apmoy70

    apmoy70 Senior Member

    Greek
    Yep, «δόξα» dóksă in ancient Greek described mostly the result of the action of the verb «δοκῶ» dŏkô --> to think, suppose, seem:
    «δοκῶ μοι» dŏkô mœ --> I think
    «δοκεῖ μοι» dŏkeî mœ --> it seems to me

    In modern Greek, not anymore, it describes just the glory, splendour. In fossilized expressions though, the meaning of thinking, supposing, still pertains, e.g. «ἔδοξε τῇ βουλῇ καὶ τῷ δήμῳ» (in modern pronunciation) ['eðokse ti vu'li ce to 'ðimo] --> the boule (=parliament, congress) and the people have decided, «κατὰ τὸ δοκοῦν» [ka'ta to ðo'kun] --> (s/he does) whatever s/he decides.
    «Eπιθυμώ» [epiθi'mo] and «εύχομαι» ['efxome] are not quite synonyms: the first means to desire for something, to long for it; the latter is an expression of wish for a particular outcome.
     
  9. ThomasK Senior Member

    (near) Kortrijk, Belgium
    Belgium, Dutch
    I suddenly think /doksa/ might have the same origin as 'think'... Doesn't refer to light too (seem) ?

    Would the thumos have anything to do with breathing? I suppose it is a gland only, or is it more ?
     
  10. Saluton Senior Member

    Moscow, Russia
    Russian
    The Russian word for 'to aspire' is стремиться (stre'mitsa), which originally means 'to flow quickly (in a certain direction)' and is clearly connected with the word stream. The phonetic term 'aspiration' is a borrowing - аспирация (aspi'ratsiya).

    There is the verb воздыхать (vozdy'khat) - 'to sigh' (for sb./sth.; used ironically), similar to the Czech vzdychati.
     
    Last edited: Mar 17, 2013
  11. ThomasK Senior Member

    (near) Kortrijk, Belgium
    Belgium, Dutch
    Very interesting! But then: the streaming does not remind of breathing, more of water, I suppose...
     
  12. Saluton Senior Member

    Moscow, Russia
    Russian
    Well, I never said it does :)
     
  13. ThomasK Senior Member

    (near) Kortrijk, Belgium
    Belgium, Dutch
    Don't misunderstand: I just wanted to check whether there could be a link between breath and this form of streaming, that's why...
     
  14. Maroseika Moderator

    Moscow
    Russian
    Strange enough it may seem, these words are unrelated:

    Stream < PIE *sreu - flow.
    Стремиться < стремить < Proto-Slavic *strьmъ (steep < to stick out), i.e. originally стремиться - to crash down from a height, which developed from the sense "to stick out, to tower above). No connection with flowing.

    Curiosely, English cognates of this Russian word are connected with stability rather than with swift movements: to stare.
     
  15. ThomasK Senior Member

    (near) Kortrijk, Belgium
    Belgium, Dutch
    The different meanings based on one root do look quite intriguing: towering, fallng down and staring... But starting from a PIE root meaning 'strong, rigid', etc., it might make sense --- though the falling still seems strange... At etymonline, I discoverd that starve, stere, stern, stark, strut and torpor are all based on it... Quite amazing, quite interesting, thanks.
     
    Last edited: Mar 17, 2013
  16. fdb Senior Member

    Cambridge, UK
    French (France)
    Latin aspīrāre has both meanings: the etymological meaning “breath towards” (ad+spīrāre), and the metaphorical “strive for”. The Romance languages inherited both meanings from Latin, and English has this word (with its two meanings) from French.
     
  17. origumi Senior Member

    Hebrew
    Similarly Hebrew שאף sh-'-f. It means both inhale and aspire.
     
  18. ThomasK Senior Member

    (near) Kortrijk, Belgium
    Belgium, Dutch
    That is another confirmation then. I am still a little amazed that it is so common, but it seems understandable...
     
  19. Saluton Senior Member

    Moscow, Russia
    Russian
    I don't believe it. The root is very widespread in both Germanic and Slavic languages, so it could have easily 'flown' from one group to the other. It might be that scholars just haven't coordinated their efforts well enough.
     
  20. Maroseika Moderator

    Moscow
    Russian
    I dare say it's not an object of belief, but of knowledge. Look Vasmer and Chernykh, this version is richly illustrated there with various examples. If your doubts are still with you, we can discuss them here in the new thread.
     
  21. ThomasK Senior Member

    (near) Kortrijk, Belgium
    Belgium, Dutch
    I suddenly come across a link with English: "panting with desire" at etymonline.com.
     
  22. arielipi Senior Member

    Israel
    Hebrew
    in hebrew we have that very much!
    להתנשף
    lehitnashef is both to pant and to gasp.
     
  23. ThomasK Senior Member

    (near) Kortrijk, Belgium
    Belgium, Dutch
    But also with desire ??? 'cause that is the essence of the question here: the link between breathing/ sighing and wishing/ longing...
     
  24. arielipi Senior Member

    Israel
    Hebrew
    Not directly im afraid, no; but it comes along often when it bears the gasping meaning
     
  25. ThomasK Senior Member

    (near) Kortrijk, Belgium
    Belgium, Dutch
    I notice that snappen, Dutch for 'to grab', means 'to gasp' originally. So here again there is a link between something practical and breathing. I am surprised...

    Hartelijk,
    JanG
     
  26. berndf Moderator

    Geneva
    German (Germany)
    That is also a derived meaning; the original meaning is to snap (=make a sudden bite): Nach Luft schnappen = to gasp, literally: to snap for air; in analogy to an animal that snaps for prey.
     
  27. ThomasK Senior Member

    (near) Kortrijk, Belgium
    Belgium, Dutch
    Is it really? Ah, but then it becomes more logical, I'd say...
     
  28. AutumnOwl

    AutumnOwl Senior Member

    Sweden
    Swedish - Sweden, Finnish
    Swedish have both att sukta efter något and att snappa (efter luft). Sukta comes from the German suchten/süchten - to breath heavily, and att sukta efter något means to desire something. Att snappa efter något have a figurative meaning of to desire something, be it air or something else, but its use is rare. The use of sukta is also getting old-fashioned. The meaning of both words are from Svenska Akademiens Ordbok - The Swedish Academy Dictionary online: http://g3.spraakdata.gu.se/saob/
     

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