"Ave" - ¿etimología?

Discussion in 'Etymology, History of languages and Linguistics (EHL)' started by No_C_Nada, Aug 15, 2009.

  1. No_C_Nada Senior Member

    Castillian - Perú
    ¿Cuál es la etimología de "Ave" en latín, cuando se usa junto a "María"?

    [Other topic snipped. Please start a new thread.
    Frank, moderator EHL]
    Last edited by a moderator: Aug 16, 2009
  2. origumi Senior Member

    My Latin professor always said that "ave" is the Roman pronounciation of Punic "khaveh" or "haveh", meaning "live" or "be" (imperative singular masculine), a greeting when two persons are meeting. Both roots, kh-v-h / kh-y-h and h-v-h / h-y-h, exist with the same meaning in Hebrew and apparently other Canaanite languages and have cognates in other Semitic languages.

    The word is said to have been borrowed by Romans via Carthagenian prisoners in one of the Punic Wars.
  3. amikama

    amikama sordomodo

    Interesting. Is this etymology established?

    According to Etymonline, the etymology is different:
  4. Hulalessar Senior Member

    English - England
    Since the plural form "avete" exists this etymology seems more plausible.
  5. origumi Senior Member

  6. franz rod Senior Member


    It's quite odd that an everyday and ordinary word have this origin.
    Also here http://www.etimo.it/?term=ave is said that the word "ave" came from the imperative form of verb "avere".
  7. Frank06

    Frank06 Senior Member

    Nederlands / Dutch (Belgium)

    Can't this problem be solved in an easy way? The only thing we have to do to substantiate the Latin origin is to come up with an attestation of 'ave' which preceedes the Punic Wars. However, if we cannot find such an early attestation, this doesn't automatically mean that the Punic etymology would be correct...


  8. mungu Senior Member

    Excuse me, but what a strange discussion. The claim that "ave" is, within the Latin grammatical system, an imperative of a verb whose infinitive is "avere", in no way excludes the claim that this verb, whatever grammatical form it was borrowed in, is from a Punic ḥ-w-h. And there is absolutely nothing strange about "ordinary and everyday words" being loans.
  9. bibax Senior Member

    Another possibility is that the Punic word leant towards an existing Latin verb with the same or similar meaning.

    A recent example of such phenomenon in the Czech language:

    The term harassment is unofficially translated harašení which is the verbal noun derived from the verb harašit (haraš! is imperative). However harašit means to rustle, and not to harass.

    I don't know the correct English term for this phenomenon which is called přichýlení (= inclination) in Czech.
  10. jazyk Senior Member

    Brno, Česká republika
    Brazílie, portugalština
  11. Ben Jamin Senior Member

  12. francisgranada Senior Member

    The Devoto's etymological dictionary of the Italian, also reports Punic origin.
  13. artion Senior Member

    If you are not satisfied with the Punic theory, here is an alternative:
    There were epiphonems (cries) of joy for Dionysus and for wine-drinking "ευοί, ευάν, ευά, ευαί, σαβαί" and other similar (Lysistrata, 1294 and http://www.perseus.tufts.edu/hopper /text?doc=Perseus%3Atext%3A1999.04.0057%3Aalphabetic+letter%3D*e%3Aentry+group%3D270%3Aentry%3Deu%29ai%2F)
    From these we have the v. ευάζω (http://www.perseus.tufts.edu/hopper...betic+letter=*e:entry+group=270:entry=eu)a/zw
    The pronounce is evi, eva, savE, evE etc. but obviously there was not strict rule on how to cheer during drinking. It is believed that from these epiphonems the latin "eviva" was produced assisted by its relevance to the v. "vivo".
    We could assume that the ave is a variant of those epiphonems.
  14. Ben Jamin Senior Member

    Evviva (double v) is not Latin, it's Italian. In Latin it's vivat, vivant (let him/them) live.
  15. mataripis

    mataripis Senior Member

    Then it is closely related to "Vivo" and "Viva" (long live!).A word of Praise which is originally used by The men of God from Israel descendants to honor the Most High.I am right that the term "ABBA" (FATHER of All) of Ancient Aramaic is the possible etymology of the latinized word "Ave"! No wonder, The Tagalog together with its sister languages has the word "AMA"(Father) which is directly evolved from "ABBA" of Ancient Aramaic."Ahora,Discubremos aquel la etimologia del verbo "Ave" es de Lengua llamado "Aramaico".
    Last edited: Jul 2, 2011
  16. No_C_Nada Senior Member

    Castillian - Perú

    It makes sense. Since Mary spoke Aramaic era lógico que la saludaran en arameo. Siempre me habían dicho que "ave" era palabra latina que significaba "saludos", que era sinónimo de "hail!"

    Muchísimas gracias a todos ustedes que aportaron su sabiduría.


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