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ayakkabını çıkart

Discussion in 'Türkçe (Turkish)' started by K2R, Apr 11, 2014.

  1. K2R Senior Member

    Germany - German
    Hello,

    I'd like to know the correct sentence:

    1 Ayakkabını çıkar ondan sonra eve gidebilirsin.

    2 Ayakkabını çıkart ondan sonra eve gidebilirsin.

    Thanks in advance!
     
  2. the north remembers Junior Member

    Turkish
    both(çıkar-çıkart) are okay.
     
  3. frmax New Member

    Istanbul
    Turkish - Türkçe
    2. cümlede bir şeyler yanlış sanki, anlatım bozukluğu olabilir. Aynı cümlede hem etken hem ettirgen fiil aynı özneyi kullanabiliyor muydu?
     
  4. Rallino Moderatoúrkos

    Ankara
    Turkish
    Öyle bir kural mı vardı? :)
    "Katil, görevliyi öldürdü ve kaçtı." gayet doğru bir cümleye benziyor.

    ------

    Yukarıdaki cümlelerdeki kulak tırmalayan tek şey "gidebilirsin" fiili. Girebilirsin daha mantıklı olacak gibi.
     
  5. CocoG Junior Member

    Turkish
    Çıkmak → geçişsiz
    Çıkarmak → oldurgan
    Çıkartmak → oldurgan+ettirgen

    Gramer kurallarına göre iki cümlenin anlamı farklı:
    1. Ayakkabını çıkar, sonra eve girebilirsin. → Ayakkabını kendin çıkar.
    2. Ayakkabını çıkart, sonra eve girebilirsin. → Ayakkabını başka biri(leri) çıkarsın. / Ayakkabını başka biri(leri)ne çıkart.

    Fakat güncel Türkçe'de oldurgan+ettirgen veya ettirgen+ettirgen çatılı fiilleri yalnızca oldurgan veya ettirgen anlamlı kullanmak oldukça yaygın.
     
  6. K2R Senior Member

    Germany - German
    Thanks! Could you give me an explanation in english?
     
  7. CocoG Junior Member

    Turkish
    Çıkmak → intransitive verb
    Çıkarmak → transitivised form of çıkmak
    Çıkartmak → causative form of çıkarmak

    Strictly speaking, two sentences have two different meanings:
    1. Ayakkabılarını çıkar, sonra eve girebilirsin. → Take off your shoes, then you can enter the house. (It's you who takes off your shoes.)
    2. Ayakkabılarını çıkart, sonra eve girebilirsin. → Have your shoes taken off, then you can enter the house. (It's someone else who takes off your shoes.)

    Another example:
    3. Ali dün saçını kesti. → Ali cut his hair yesterday. (Ali cut his hair himself.)
    4. Ali dün saçını kestirdi. → Ali had his hair cut yesterday. (It was probably a hairdresser who cut Ali's hair.)
    5. Annesi dün Ali'ye saçını kestirtti. → His mother made Ali have his hair cut yesterday. (His mother requested/ordered Ali to have his hair cut.) As shown here, it's possible to make a causative verb di- or tri-causative (for lack of a better term) in Turkish. I'd say that more than tri-causative forms are unusual and would sound funny/bizarre.

    However, in contemporary and colloquial Turkish, as much as it's erroneous from a purely grammatical standpoint, it's very common to use causative forms of transitivised verbs or di-causatives as if they were only transitivised or mono-causative, respectively.

    I'm sorry if this explanation has been a little term-laden. For further information on the subject, I'd prompt you to read about fiil çatısı in Turkish.
     
    Last edited: Apr 12, 2014
  8. K2R Senior Member

    Germany - German
    Hi, CocoG,

    You have explained it very well! Thanks a lot! :)
     
  9. jcpjcp Senior Member

    Turkish/Turkic
    Both are correct. The second one (çıkart) is grammatically not correct. But in everday conversational Turkish, it is very common to use it with the meaning of "çıkar" .
     
  10. K2R Senior Member

    Germany - German
    This is very interesting! Thank you!
     

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