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b, g before a consonant (pronunciation)

Discussion in 'Deutsch (German)' started by johnkeyoneab2, Jan 14, 2013.

  1. johnkeyoneab2 Junior Member

    Shanghai
    Chinese
    Hi,everyone,

    When d and g are at the end of a German word,I know that they are prouounced as t and k,however,when they are NOT at the end,but precede a consonant in a word,I'm very confused as to their pronunciation.For example,the d in endlich is not at the end,but it is still prouounced as t;the g in möglich is not at the end,but it is still prouounced as k.I looked up these two words in wiktionary and just when I thought that whenever d and g precede a consonant they should be prouounced as t and k,another word attracted my attention,which is ludwig.To prove what I thought was right,I looked it up in wiktionary which tells me that the d is prouounced as d,NOT t.

    So why is it that d in endlich and ludwig are prouounced differently?

    your help would be very much appreciated.
     
  2. Demiurg

    Demiurg Senior Member

    Germany
    German
  3. johnkeyoneab2 Junior Member

    Shanghai
    Chinese
    Thank you very much.So When d and g precede a consonant in a word,they do sound like t and k even if they are not at the end of a word?
     
  4. Hutschi

    Hutschi Senior Member

    Dresden, Universum
    German, Germany
    Hi, note also syllables. It is hartened at the end of syllables, if the next syllable starts with a consonant.
    They are not hardened in words like "Draht" or "Grat", for example, where they are at the beginning of a syllable.

    Also note that "ig" at the end of words mostly is spoken like "ich".
    Ludwig [ˈluːtvɪç] German wiktionary
    (In some regions and in "hypercorrect" pronunciation it is spoken "ik".)
     
    Last edited: Jan 14, 2013
  5. johnkeyoneab2 Junior Member

    Shanghai
    Chinese
    but the d in Friedrich in German wiktionary is pronounced as d
     
  6. Hutschi

    Hutschi Senior Member

    Dresden, Universum
    German, Germany
    In "Friedrich" it is at the begin of a syllable. At the begin it is not hardened.
    If you consider "d" etymologically correct as at the end of the first syllable, it is hardened.

    But we speak it as
    IPA: [ˈfʀiːdʀɪç]

    like "Frie-drich".

    (Note that I updated my first answer.)

    In Ludwig we speak it like "Lut-wich".
    IPA: [ˈluːtvɪç]

    Note that the spoken syllables are essential, not the written ones. The spelling reform accepted in many cases the spoken forms now for "Silbentrennung".
     
    Last edited: Jan 14, 2013
  7. johnkeyoneab2 Junior Member

    Shanghai
    Chinese
    Do you mean that Friedrich should be considered as Frie + drich?
     
  8. johnkeyoneab2 Junior Member

    Shanghai
    Chinese
    Thank you very much for your help:).This matter has confused me for a long time.
     
    Last edited: Jan 14, 2013
  9. Hutschi

    Hutschi Senior Member

    Dresden, Universum
    German, Germany
    Yes, in spoken form it is reinterpreted. Etymologically this is wrong. But we have such things in a lot of words, especially with "r":
    wo-rauf and wor-auf (it is spoken wo-rauf - Duden recommends syllable separation wo-rauf now ...) This is a plus of the spelling reform.
    wo-rin and wor-in (it is spoken wo-rin - Duden recommends syllable separation wo-rin now ...)

    In case of Friedrich see: http://www.duden.de/rechtschreibung/Friedrich_maennlicher_Vorname


    Because of spoken syllables, in "Tag" it is hardened but not in "Tage" because of spoken syllables "Ta-ge".
    IPA: [taːk], Plural: [ˈtaːɡə]

    Combined words
    Because of this "words and syllable" principle it is hardened in "Taganfang" - because "an" belongs to the next word and starts with a short break and a "Knacklaut".
     
    Last edited: Jan 14, 2013
  10. johnkeyoneab2 Junior Member

    Shanghai
    Chinese
    Thank you again for your patient and detailed explanation.I appreciate it very much.Hope I can always rely on you for help.:p
     

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