BCS: živim na trgu Republike, a on na Francuske Republike

Discussion in 'Other Slavic Languages' started by sesperxes, Mar 31, 2013.

  1. sesperxes

    sesperxes Senior Member

    Burgos (Spain)
    Spanish-Spain
    Dear foreros,

    in a sentence like this (živim na trgu Republike, a on na Francuske Republike), may I ommit the "trgu" if we both live in squares?

    In a more general case, in a colloquial way may I say directly "kuća mi je na Mire Bano, na Marka Marulića, na Josipa Broza..." without "ulici"? (in case that in that town everybody knows that these proper names are given to streets, and not to parks, stadiums or bridges, of course).

    Thanks for your help.
     
  2. Anicetus Senior Member

    Croatian
    No, you can't leave a genitive attribute (such as Republike or Francuske Republike) alone. The genitive attribute always comes together with the word it refers to.

    However, if a square has an adjectival attribute in its name, it can be used alone. The adjective doesn't have to be in the square's official name, names of squares in the form Trg + [name and surname in genitive] are often shortened to [possessive adjective from the surname] + trg in common speech, ie. Trg Marka Marulića -> Marulićev trg, Trg Josipa Broza Tita -> Titov trg. So, for example:
    Živim na Marulićevom trgu, a on na Titovom
    is perfectly normal.

    The same applies to streets and everything else.
     
  3. VelikiMag Senior Member

    Serbian - Montenegro
    Yes, you may. But the proper preposition for ulica is in this case "u" and not "na".

    This is especially the case when someone is giving directions, word ulica would be completely omitted:
    Iz Mire Bano ideš u Marka Marulića, pa odatle skreneš u Josipa Broza.
     
  4. itreius Senior Member

    Assembly
    To me the most natural informal way to say it would be u Marulićevoj, u Brozovoj, i.e. kuća mi je u Brozovoj or živim u Brozovoj.
     
  5. Duya Senior Member

    Not in WR world
    Whatever
    Um, I have a strong feeling of contradiction :).

    Anicetus is technically right that you can't omit the head noun when the attribute is in genitive, but for the special case of streets it is usually not followed. So the examples given by Veliki Mag are quite realistic; on the other hand, people will often turn the genitive into possessive, to make the phrase nicer (and properly declinable).

    Just recently I've read a recommendation by Serbian linguists to use possessive in street names wherever possible, to make the name declinable. Note that genitive must be used for multi-word phrases (Ulica Džona Lenona), but it will be usually shortened to Lenonova (or just Džona Lenona) wherever the context is clear.

    However, trg is usually not omitted in this way, because it is both short and marked, so the title of this threas is an unlikely utterance. :)
     
  6. sesperxes

    sesperxes Senior Member

    Burgos (Spain)
    Spanish-Spain
    Thanks for your help, but your answer makes me put another one: this possibility of changing full street name (name+surname) to simplified with possesive means that in a town I'll never find an ulica Nikole Tesle and a Teslina ulica because these are two ways of saying the same? (being the first one, the offical name, and the second one, the colloquial name).
     
    Last edited: Apr 1, 2013
  7. Duya Senior Member

    Not in WR world
    Whatever
    That's true. But who would name two streets in the same city after the same person? Even the late Maršal haven't had that honor. :)
     
  8. sesperxes

    sesperxes Senior Member

    Burgos (Spain)
    Spanish-Spain

    I'm reading the žute stranice of Zagreb and a map of Podgorica and all the names of streets are shown directly in genitive (there's no Abramović, Adamis
     
  9. Anicetus Senior Member

    Croatian
    That's right, when writing down an address, Ulica is almost always omitted and the genitive is left alone. Trg isn't omitted, though. However, the plain genitive just doesn't sound good to me actually put in a sentence, except when dictating an address or in a similar special context.

    You usually won't, but as a bit of trivia -- Zagreb does have both Vukovarska ulica and Ulica grada Vukovara. Despite that, people call Ulica grada Vukovara simply Vukovarska all the time, and when you hear Vukovarska in Zagreb, it usually refers to Ulica grada Vukovara. That's because the former is an obscure street on the periphery, while the latter is one of the city's principal streets. The obscure one has probably been called like that for a longer time, as Ulica grada Vukovara received its name after 1991, when its old name had no longer been considered appropriate and when many cities in Croatia renamed one of their streets after Vukovar.
     

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