BCS: hiljada/hiljadu

Discussion in 'Other Slavic Languages' started by Bresca, Feb 22, 2013.

  1. Bresca Senior Member

    Dear foreros,

    I have a doubt about numerals tisuća/hiljada and stotina.

    I see that usually (in dates and specifying amounts),it is preferred to use accusatives, as in sentences like "tisuću hrvatskih kuna", "hiljadu i jedna noć", "on ima više od hiljadu prijatelja" or "stotinu i jedan Dalmatinaca (by the way, why not "stotinu i jedan Dalmatinac"?).

    My question is WHEN do we use tisuća, hiljada and stotina as they appear in dictionaries, that is, in plain nominative.

    Hiljadu hvala.

    (I've corrected the gender of "jedan". Sorry!)
     
    Last edited: Feb 22, 2013
  2. DenisBiH

    DenisBiH Senior Member

    An interesting question. It never occurred to me, but now that you mention it it does sound strange. I can't help you with the why, but I can help you with the things below

     
  3. Duya Senior Member

    Not in WR world
    Whatever
    Good question indeed. Thinking about it, I'm close to the answer "never" (except, of course, when we're discussing words tisuća and stotina themselves). Some constructions are plausible with nom.sg:

    ?Stotina ljudi je došla.

    but its grammaticality is questionable (Stotinu ljudi je došlo. is undisputably OK). On the other hand, in nom. pl. it is also OK:

    Stotine ljudi su došle.
     
  4. VelikiMag Senior Member

    Serbian - Montenegro
    This is what grammar book says about it:

    Kod brojeva stotina, hiljada i milijarda upotrebljavamo skamenjeni akuzativ na -u, i to ne samo umesto kosih padeža (npr. umesto lokativa u: Reč je o hiljadu dolara) nego i umesto nominativa, npr:
    Postoji stotinu razloga za to.
    Milijardu ljudi gladuje.

    Ova tri broja se dekliniraju kad znače neodređenu množinu, npr. hiljade dolara, više hiljadâ dolara, reč je o hiljadama dolara; ali: reč je o tri hiljade dolara.
     
  5. DenisBiH

    DenisBiH Senior Member

    I don't quite understand the "but" part. What's the difference between riječ je o više hiljada dolara and riječ je o petnaest hiljada dolara? The form is the same. Isn't the form hiljade in tri hiljade simply that paucal that we use for counting with numbers ..2 - ..4?
     
    Last edited: Feb 22, 2013
  6. Anicetus Senior Member

    Croatian
    Ja bih rekao da hiljada jest deklinirana u ovom zadnjem slučaju -- pa hiljade je nominativ množine, slaže se sa tri. Druga je priča što se tri ne deklinira uz prijedlog.

    Anyway, stotina and tisuća or hiljada are necessary (not only "OK") when you want to use them in plural (stotine ljudi - "hundreds of people"; you can't say *više sto ljudi) or in phrases such as nekoliko stotinaG pl. ljudi ("a few hundred people"). That's probably what the quote about "indefinite plural" was -- indefinite quantifiers such as nekoliko, par, više must take a declined form of stotina, while numbers 2-9 can form a new word number with sto (pet + sto > petsto).
    It's also possible to use the form of stotina agreeing with 2-9 to express numbers 200-900 (for example, the caption on the 500 kuna banknote is pet stotina kuna), but this is much less common than one-word numbers such as petsto. Tisuća or hiljada, however, are always used in the appropriate forms with numbers 2-999 for 2000-9000: dvije tisuće, pet tisuća etc.

    Sto is technically always replaceable with stotinu, but expressions such as stotinu i jedan Dalmatinac sound less common than sto i jedan Dalmatinac and more emphatic.
     
  7. VelikiMag Senior Member

    Serbian - Montenegro
    Ovo "ali" vjerovatno znači da se deklinira čak i kada je određena množina (tri hiljade dolara je tačno tri hiljade), a kada stoji iza brojeva koji sami po sebi zahtijevaju genitiv. Dok recimo ako bi bilo hiljadu dolara (što je takođe određeno) reklo bi se reč je o hiljadu dolara, a ne o hiljadi, što bi bio pravilan lokativ. Barem sam ja tako shvatio.
     

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