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BCS: Predicate noun after accusatives

Discussion in 'Other Slavic Languages' started by Miliu, Jan 25, 2013.

  1. Miliu Junior Member

    Madeira
    Portuguese
    Dear listeros,

    in a copulative sentence with accusative, the predicate noun goes in nominative or in accusative?

    Biraju novogAKK predsjednikaAKK ObamaNOM / ObamuAKK (choose Obama as new president)
    Zvao je sinaAKK SinišaNOM / SinišuAKK (a newborn)

    Thanks for your attention.
     
  2. Duya Senior Member

    Not in WR world
    Whatever
    In accusative. The whole noun phrase headed by an attributive noun or adjective is declined. Thus e.g,

    Bio sam s predsednikomINS ObamomINS
    Bio sam s poštovanimINS ObamomINS.

    When the noun phrase is not headed by an attributive, the dependent goes unchanged:

    Bio sam s predsednikomINS AmerikeGEN.
     
  3. Miliu Junior Member

    Madeira
    Portuguese
    I'm afraid I could explain what I really wanted. I meant sentences with verbs like to call, to name, to vote, to choose... like in the sentence: Vespucci called that land "America", they choose Zvonko (as) goalkeeper, he call his daddy "Papi" and so on.
     
  4. Duya Senior Member

    Not in WR world
    Whatever
    I kind of understand, but your examples don't fit into the same pattern. There are different rections (cases in which a verb takes its arguments -- direct and indirect objects) involved, and they must be learned by heart for each verb. Your examples aren't copulative, because copulas by definition take both arguments in nominative.

    Zvati/nazvati, as well as proglasiti have the subject in accusative, and the name/title in instrumental:

    Proglasili su ObamuACC predsednikomINS.
    Nazvali su kraljaACC budalomINS.

    However, when the name or title is a quoted phrase or a proper noun (esp. a personal name), it stays in nominative:

    Nazvali su sina SinišaNOM.
    Narod zove kralja "glupi Avgust".NOM
    Zvao je oca Papi.

    Sometimes, both are OK:

    Kolumbo je nazvao zemlju AmerikaNOM/AmerikomINS.

    Proglasiti can also take the argument in form of za+GEN. Izabrati always does that:

    Proglasili su Obamu za predsednika.
    Izabrali/izglasali su Obamu za predsednika.

    Etc.

    Croatian, particularly high-register, generally uses more instrumental than Serbian with some semi-copulative verbs, such as postati:

    Obama je postao predsjednikomINS, Cro/predsednikNOM, Srb.
     
  5. Miliu Junior Member

    Madeira
    Portuguese
    OK, it's the same in Portuguese: when you want to enphasize, you use our "instrumental" (contracts, laws...), but common people use nominative (that sometimes is misleading and you must repeat the sentence in instrumental, since our nomitative has the same form than accusative!). We can say "He called Simon Peter", but we don't now wether he gave the name "Peter" to a fisherman called Simon or he just called someone called Simon-Peter.

    Thanks for your help!
     
  6. Duya Senior Member

    Not in WR world
    Whatever
    Zvati has that dual meaning, as English call (I presume that's so in Romance languages to, as in French appelle): 1) To give a name to someone or 2) To call somebody [once].

    Nazvao je Simona Petrom. would normally be uttered and understood as 2) (he called him once). For the meaning 1 (unexpected, therefore marked), one would presumably use an alternate construction: Dao je Simonu ime Petar.
     
  7. DenisBiH

    DenisBiH Senior Member

    Just a slight off-topic addition: AFAIK, St. Peter is usually called Šimun and not Simon in Croatian (Bosnian follows this, judging by Wikipedia). It also seems that in Serbian there is the name Simeon, but I don't know which name is used as "official" in the Serbian Orthodox tradition (Bible translations etc).
     
  8. Duya Senior Member

    Not in WR world
    Whatever
    Yes, it's Simèon.
     

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