but (for) con pronombres reflexivos

Discussion in 'Spanish-English Grammar / Gramática Español-Inglés' started by negrilla, May 26, 2011.

  1. negrilla New Member

    Colombian Spanish
    Buenos días,

    Hay una regla gramatical que dice que los pronombres personales pueden ser sustituídos por los pronombres reflexivos despues de las siguientes palabras : like, as, except, but(for).

    He encontrado varios ejemplos con like, as y con excetp así:
    • Everybody turned up except yourself. OR Everybody turned up except you.
    Con la única palabra que no he encontrado ejemplos es con but(for).

    Les agraeceria infinitamente si me pueden colaborar,

    Negrilla.
     
  2. WhiteFang

    WhiteFang Senior Member

    Hola negrilla:

    Se usa mucho el "but" en este caso en el sentido de "excepto".

    Algunos ejemplos:

    - You can run and hide from everyone but yourself.
    - To be nobody but yourself.
    - Trust no one but yourself.

    Con but + for:

    - Do it not for us but for yourself.
    - He's in this not for his country but for himself.
    - They did it not for us but for themselves.

    Saludos,

    WF
     
    Last edited: May 26, 2011
  3. negrilla New Member

    Colombian Spanish
    Hola WhiteFang !!!

    Mil gracias por tu oportuna colaboracion, esos ejemplos estan magnificos; quiere decir que yo puedo con estos usar ya sean los pronombres personales o los reflexivos? ej:

    - You can run and hide from everyone but yourself. (but you)
    - To be nobody but yourself. (but you)
    - Trust no one but yourself. (but you)


    Es correcto?

    Gracias!!!
     
  4. ray1rayh Junior Member

    Madrid, España
    English - USA

    Si digo la verdad, yo no usaría la palabra "you" en estas frases. Las significadas con "you" me parecen extrañas, excepto tal vez la última. No sé si puedo explicar por que...

    No one thinks you´re that great but (yourself/you).

    a mi me parece mejor.
     
  5. negrilla New Member

    Colombian Spanish
    Hola ray1rayh

    Quieres decir que no es correcto ya sea usar el pronombre reflexivo o el personal con los primeros ejemplos que me dio whiteFang dando a "but (for)" el sentido de "except"?

    Y con estos otros?

    Con but + for:

    - Do it not for us but for yourself. (but for you)
    - He's in this not for his country but for himself. (but for him)
    - They did it not for us but for themselves. (but for them

    La cuestion es que estoy enfrascada con la gramatica que he encontrado y no ofrecen ejemplos claros de cuando puedo sustituir dichos pronombres cuando uso el but (for).

    Si me puedes aclarar este asunto te lo agradezco.

    Negrilla.
     
    Last edited: May 26, 2011
  6. Forero Senior Member

    Houston, Texas, USA
    USA English
    Welcome to the forum, Negrilla.

    Everybody turned up except yourself. :cross:
    Everybody turned up except you. :tick:
    Don't trust anyone except yourself. :tick:

    There was no one there but yourself. :cross:
    There was no one there but you. :tick:
    Don't trust anyone but yourself. :tick:

    But for herself, no one would have helped me. :cross:
    But for her, no one would have helped me. :tick:

    Los hay que usan los pronombres reflexivos para evitar seleccionar entre formas sujetivas y objetivas, pero creo que eso no tiene mucho que ver con like, as, etc.
     
  7. negrilla New Member

    Colombian Spanish
    Hello, Forero!!!

    Que opinas de mi post acerca de las palabras que coloque en rojo de acuerdo a los ejemplos de ray1rayh , es correcto?

    Thank you so much!!!
     
  8. Forero Senior Member

    Houston, Texas, USA
    USA English
    Do it not for us but for yourself. :tick:
    Do it not for us but for you. :tick: [El significado es un poco diferente.]

    He's in this not for his country but for himself. :tick:
    He's in this not for his country but for him. :cross: [Incorrecto, a menos que sea otra persona "him".]

    They did it not for us but for themselves. :tick:
    They did it not for us but for them. :cross: [Incorrecto, a menos que "them" sean otras personas.]
     
  9. WhiteFang

    WhiteFang Senior Member

    Hola negrilla:

    Pensé que necesitabas ejemplos del uso de but + pronombres reflexivos.

    Los ejemplos que te di me parecen correctos sólo como los mencioné, usando los reflexivos y no reemplazándolos por pronombres personales como en tu pregunta.

    Ahora, me encantaría saber cuando y por qué se pueden usar los reflexivos como reemplazo de los personales, sin que cambie el sentido de la oración.

    ¿Alguien sabe la regla gramatical que lo explique?

    Saludos,

    WF
     
  10. negrilla New Member

    Colombian Spanish
    Hola WhiteFang,

    La regla gramatical de la que hablo es esta :

    Para sustituir un pronombre personal:
    Después de "like" (como), "as" (como), "but (for)" (pero para), except (for) (excepto para)

    Por ejemplo:

    - A man like yourself (también puedo decir "you" (este es el pronombre personal que sustituyo por "yourself") shouldn't worry so much.

    - Everybody turned up except yourself. OR Everybody turned up except you.


    - These shoes are specially designed for heavy runners like yourself. (OR … like you.)

    - Everybody was happy except myself. (OR … except me.)

    Te doy los enlaces en donde hablan acerca de esto; pero no dan ejemplos con but (for):
    http://menuaingles.blogspot.com/2008/08/pronombres-reflexivos.html
    http://www.englishgrammar.org/reflexive-pronouns/
    http://www.perfectyourenglish.com/grammar/reflexive-pronouns.htm

    Despues de leerlos me podrias ayudar?

    Gracias!!!
     
  11. gringuitoloco Senior Member

    Florida
    American (awesome) English
    If you want to test to see if you can use yourself, use it after the verb. If you can (whatever verb) yourself, then you can use "but yourself'"

    You can run and hide from anyone but yourself. [run and hide from yourself makes sense]
    to be nobody but yourself [to be yourself]
    Everybody turned up except yourself [turned yourself up.....doesn't make sense, therefore "you"]

    there was no one there but yourself. [there was yourself....again...doesn't make sense, therefore incorrect]

    he's in this, not for his country, but for himself. [he's in this for himself...makes sense.]




    also, yourself is used as a reflexive verb. unless the subject is "you," or the verb is in the infinitive, you shouldn't be able to use "yourself."
     

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