c', ci, c'è

Discussion in 'Italian-English' started by duckie, Sep 14, 2006.

  1. duckie

    duckie Senior Member

    Copenhagen
    Denmark
    My book is using c'è and ci and c'<various>, but I'm having trouble understanding precise definitions (and is the c' the same as ce or ci or what?). The dictionary is also confusing with seemingly a thousand meanings.. can someone give me a simple overview please?
     
  2. Necsus

    Necsus Senior Member

    Formello (Rome)
    Italian (Italy)
    Duckie, c' = ci after elision. You can elide the 'i' of 'ci' only before a word that begins with 'i' (c'invita - but it's not so common, I personally write ci invita) and in c'è and c'era.
    Whereas in spoken language we use 'ci' very often, because is a intensifier of the verb, especially the verb 'avere' (to have), and very often we elide it.
     
  3. duckie

    duckie Senior Member

    Copenhagen
    Denmark
    And ci both means 'us' and 'there', right? And it's the 'there' part that is used in many contexts with various subtle changes to the meaning?
     
  4. Necsus

    Necsus Senior Member

    Formello (Rome)
    Italian (Italy)
    'Ci' is a pronominal particle unaccented for first plural person (us). It's direct and indirect object (ci ha visto, ci scrivono), enclitic with infinitive, gerund, imperative and 'ecco' (dirci, vedendoci, facci, eccoci); locative adverb (noi ci siamo), also pleonastic (as in c'è, c'era, c'erano, ci senti?); demonstrative pronoun (= di ciò, a ciò, in ciò, su ciò, da ciò ==> ci penserò, non c'entra); intensifier in idioms, it becomes 'ce' combined with other pronouns (farcela, avercela).
     
  5. swinginscot Senior Member

    English, UK/US
    Ciao a tutti,
    Sto facendo qualche esercizio sul "ci" ... potreste aiutami?

    Marco non conosce il teatro comunale di Genova, non e' mai stato al teatro comunale di Genova

    replacing with adverb ci:

    ... non ci e' mai stato

    ma si puo' dire anche: ... non c'e' mai stato??

    Grazie mille :)
     
  6. sabrinita85

    sabrinita85 Senior Member

    Rome, Italy
    Italian
    Meglio "c'è" [--> una particella avverbiale di luogo (in questo/quel posto)] perché CI davanti a verbi che cominciano per E si elide.
     
  7. GammaRay Senior Member

    New York, NY
    english - us
    Ciao,

    Is the "ci" in c'è a locative adverbial pronoun?

    Grazie.
     
  8. Giorgio Spizzi Senior Member

    Italian
    Well, Gamma, in a sentence like "C'è mia sorella alla porta", the "ci" is an adverb. Period.

    GS
     
  9. GammaRay Senior Member

    New York, NY
    english - us
    I apologize for not giving context but you've answered my question. So, used in that way (i.e. c'è, ci sono), "ci" is not a pronoun at all?
     
  10. Giorgio Spizzi Senior Member

    Italian
    Nope. Its meaning is "here, in this place" or "there, in that place".

    You might be interested in the following:

    There is = C'è
    There are = Ci sono
    There was = C'èra/Ci fu
    There were =C'èrano/Ci furono
    There will be = Ci sarà, Ci saranno
    There would be = Ci sarebbe/Ci sarebbero
    There being (mind you: This is a flip-flop!) = EssèndoCI
    There to be (See above) = ÈsserCI

    GS
     
    Last edited: Jul 29, 2011
  11. GammaRay Senior Member

    New York, NY
    english - us
    Is this in fact "ci" in the same morphological category as the "ci" in "c'ho"? Or in this case, is the "ci" in "c'ho, c'hai", etc. just a pleonastic pronominal particle? If so, is this "ci" a pronoun then?

    Grazie.


    Also, and most importantly, even though it is not a pronoun when used in the previously mentioned way ("C'è), is it a clitic there?
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Jul 29, 2011
  12. Giorgio Spizzi Senior Member

    Italian
    The answer to the questions in smaller print are " Yes, a demonstrative pronoun."

    Also, it is a "clitic" there.

    Best.

    GS
     

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