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cause of death - old church book

Discussion in 'Lingua Latina (Latin)' started by plachy, May 2, 2013.

  1. plachy New Member

    Poland
    Polish
    I need help with the genealogical source. The 1st line is quite confusing, so I'll be grateful for every answer...
    record-image(11).jpg
     
  2. CapnPrep Senior Member

    France
    AmE
    As you have noticed, such documents are often difficult to read, and any additional information you can provide will help us help you. Do you already know the name of the person involved? The place? The year? It is particularly frustrating that parts of the text and the surrounding lines are blurred out :mad:. Why is that?

    Here's what it looks like to me:

    R[?] E[?] Obijt seu alias occisus ab [aspidatore?] Judeo in Taberna
    anno[s?] 30, Sepultus ad [Eccl?]: S Bartholom[ae?]i
     
  3. plachy New Member

    Poland
    Polish
    Thank you very much.
    Place - Rembielice (not blurred), it was the 13th February 1798.
    He was 30 years old, was buried at the church.
    At the end of the signature of the priest.
    - this is perhaps the key to the whole story...
     
  4. plachy New Member

    Poland
    Polish
    Not blurred image: record-image(3).jpg
     
  5. CapnPrep Senior Member

    France
    AmE
    It's the name of the church: St. Bartholomew's.
    Now that you've given the first word as "Rembielice", this word is not "aspidatore" but "arendatore".
     
  6. fdb Senior Member

    Cambridge, UK
    French (France)
    Well spotted CapnPrep! My suggestion:

    Rembielice: ead(em) obiit seu alias occisus ab arendatore Judeo in taberna Jacobus Kozern (?) anno 30 sepultus ad ec(c)l(esia) S. Bartholomaei

    Rembielice: on the same (day) Jacob Kozern died, or rather was slain be a Jewish arendator in the tavern at the age of 30, buried by the church of St. Bartholomy.
     
  7. Scholiast Senior Member

    Reading, UK
    English - UK
    Greetings

    My halfpenny-worth:

    "Kozera" perhaps?

    The arendator (convincing reading by fdb # 6 there) would be the landlord. This and cognates are well established in eastern-European languages, including Polish and Russian.

    "was slain" is perhaps a little precious, why not just "killed" or "murdered"?

    Σ
    (sorry, cross-posted on arendator)
     
    Last edited: May 3, 2013
  8. plachy New Member

    Poland
    Polish
    Great, thank you very much!
    By the way, my previous fight with Latin (Pawel Poraj it's my 7th great grandfather (paternal)):

    1745-09-01-Paweł-Poray-zgony.jpg
    "Paul Poray from Zwierzyniec about 60 years, accidentally killed by the bad man on a public road, he was confessed at the Assumption of the Blessed Virgin Mary, and was buried in the cemetery of our parish."
     

    Attached Files:

  9. CapnPrep Senior Member

    France
    AmE
    Casu infortuito does not mean "accidentally", but "unfortunately, sadly".
     
  10. Ben Jamin Senior Member

    Norway
    Polish
    In old Poland "arendarz" was the name of a person renting something from the landlord (an inn, a mill, or even a farm). Jews were not landlords, they were tenants. So, independent of the original meaning of the Latin word "arendator" can only be translated as "inn tenant".
     
  11. fdb Senior Member

    Cambridge, UK
    French (France)
    In England, we call the manager of a public house the “landlord”, although in most cases he does not own the land or the building, but rents them from a brewery. I assume that our friend Scholiast is using the word in this modern sense. “Tenant” would of course be less ambiguous. I assume that this short entry does in fact imply that the murderer was the tenant of the Taberna.
     
  12. Scholiast Senior Member

    Reading, UK
    English - UK
    My sincere thanks to Ben Jamin (# 10) for the correction, and to fdb (# 11) - by whom it is flattering to be described as a "friend" - for the elucidation.

    Σ
     
    Last edited: May 4, 2013
  13. fdb Senior Member

    Cambridge, UK
    French (France)
    By the way, am I the only one who has noticed the (surely unintentional) humour of the thread title?
     
  14. plachy New Member

    Poland
    Polish
    I have another problem with the exact translating.
    "Catherine wife of Francis Przygoda from Kukow about 46 years old, died at home..."
    Przygoda - lastname, Kukow, Krzepice - places, Benedict Nowakowski - priest(?).
    Is it also something about 'bad air' ?
    record-image(11).jpg

    http://genealogia.net.pl/images/record-image(11).jpg
     
  15. Ben Jamin Senior Member

    Norway
    Polish
    I would like to clarify that the spelling of the first names of the people in those church books is Latinized, and is not the same as used by the people themselves. It may be important if one should try to find the same people in other documents, not written in Latin.
    Catherine was actually Katarzyna, Francis - Franciszek, Benedict - Benedykt.
     
  16. CapnPrep Senior Member

    France
    AmE
    No, there is nothing about bad air… :confused:
     

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