c'est tout ce que je veux dire

Discussion in 'French-English Vocabulary / Vocabulaire Français-Anglais' started by john_riemann_soong, Nov 25, 2006.

  1. john_riemann_soong

    john_riemann_soong Senior Member

    Singapore / United States
    English, Singlish, Chinese; Singapore
    I saw this phrase posted somewhere (this is from memory), and I am piqued because why is the "ce" in the "ce que" there? Could not one just say "que"? Is it just for emphasis?
     
  2. Olympus_france Junior Member

    French France
    You can say:

    C'est ce que je veux
    (that's what I want)
    or

    C'est tout ce que je veux (that's all I want)
    but not : c'est tout que je veux.

    In this case, the pronoun "tout" completes the demonstrative pronoun "ce".
    "tout" is used in front of "ce que" (or sometimes "ce qui") in the sense of all that, everything that.

    other examples
    Tout ce que tu as fait = everything you did

    Tu n'as pas eu de mal; c'est tout ce qui compte.
    You weren't hurt; that's all that matters.

    I hope that this will help you.

    Olympus
    Frenchgirl
     
  3. john_riemann_soong

    john_riemann_soong Senior Member

    Singapore / United States
    English, Singlish, Chinese; Singapore
    So the "ce" is warranted because of the nature of "tout"? Would this apply to stuff like "beaucoup" as well? (There's a lot that I want to say = "il y a beaucoup ce que je veux dire?")
     
  4. femmefee

    femmefee Senior Member

    Canada
    Ce que is used as indefinite direct object in a relative clause, means "what"
    - C'est ce que j'aime.
    Que is used as conjunction, it is equivalent to "that"
    -Je pense qu'il a raison.;)
     
  5. Olympus_france Junior Member

    French France
    That is complicated to explain because of my poor English.

    No, you cannot apply this to "beaucoup", because "beaucoup" is an adverb. Tout is a pronoun.
    There's a lot that I want to say = Il y a beaucoup de choses que je veux dire.
     
  6. femmefee

    femmefee Senior Member

    Canada
    I think my explaination earlier is quite clear to this question:confused:
    que = that, so when one says "I have a lot that I want to say", you would use que instead of ce que???:D
     
  7. Olympus_france Junior Member

    French France
    You're absolutely right. Ce que / Ce qui is a relative pronoun introducing the relative clause.

    Please refer to the initial question of JohnRiema !

    But the second question "There is a lot that I want to say" translated in French cannot be built with "ce que" .
     
  8. john_riemann_soong

    john_riemann_soong Senior Member

    Singapore / United States
    English, Singlish, Chinese; Singapore
    Oh I checked WR for "beaucoup" and I did note that it was listed as a pronoun ...

    So is the "ce" because there needs to be an equivalency with the "c'est" in the beginning?

    Thus "this is mostly what I [had] want[ed] to say" = "c'est la plupart ce que je veux [voulais?] dire"?
     
  9. Olympus_france Junior Member

    French France
    In French, BEAUCOUP is an adverb of quantity like
    tellement, trop, un peu, moins, seulement etc.

    CE is used before QUE (or QUI) when the relative pronoun does not refer to a specific noun. Both CE QUE and CE QUI mean "THAT WHICH", THE THING WHICH and are usually translated by WHAT;

    I come back to my first explanation:
    TOUT is used in front of CE QUE / CE QUI in the sens of ALL THAT.

    Now: This is most of what I want to say : c'est la plupart des choses que je veux dire. In this case LA PLUPART is followed by DE and A NOUN to express the quantity.
     
  10. FAC13

    FAC13 Senior Member

    English, UK
    To go back to the original question, which was: "why is there a ce there?"

    The "problem" is that in English we omit words in sentences like these.

    Nowadays we say "all I want to say is".

    We used to say "all that I want to say is".

    And before that we used to say "all that which I want to say is".

    French hasn't taken the same short-cuts. The result is stuff like "qu'est-ce que c'est que ça?", which is technically correct, but is terribly confusing to those of us used to just saying "what's that?"
     
  11. john_riemann_soong

    john_riemann_soong Senior Member

    Singapore / United States
    English, Singlish, Chinese; Singapore
    Mmm, but what I'm wondering is why it applies to "tout" and not other nouns. Are there other words that along with "tout" that have to be used with "ce que"? (I tried beaucoup because I was looking for another pronoun and WR said it was both a pronoun and an adverb when I looked it up.)
     
  12. marget Senior Member

    Tout is not a noun. It's a pronoun. It is not considered to be a definite antecedent as the word "book" would be, for example. Therefore ce que would have to be used in the context you cited because it must be used when there is either no antecedent at all or an indefinite antecedent. I believe the word "tout" is the only example of an indefinite antecedent.
     
  13. Olympus_france Junior Member

    French France
    John Riemann Soong, please trust me when I explained the particularity of TOUT CE QUE :
    TOUT is used in front of CE QUE (or CE QUI) in the sense of ALL THAT, EVERYTHING THAT.

    You have this explanation too in a good French Grammar book.

    Just sorry for my English.
    Olympus France
     
  14. FAC13

    FAC13 Senior Member

    English, UK
    I don't know whether there is an answer to "why" but I doubt it. Somebody may have a rule to help you but I think this is one of those situations where the "rules" of grammar are nothing more than observations...
     
  15. john_riemann_soong

    john_riemann_soong Senior Member

    Singapore / United States
    English, Singlish, Chinese; Singapore
    I do trust you, I was just trying to link it with other concepts, hence I make lots of follow-up inquiries. ;)
     

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