clandestinità

Discussion in 'Italian-English' started by clonic, Jul 22, 2010.

  1. clonic New Member

    italian
    Hallo,
    I must translate a page in which there is written "...il gruppo agì in clandestinità nel dopoguerra...". Please somebody help me in translating it!
    Thanks in advance for any answer
     
  2. charyuop Junior Member

    Oklahoma, USA.
    Italiano
    ...group of people who acted secretly (o in secrecy) in the post-war period....

    ho sentito la frase live underground, ma non so se si puo' usare in questa situazione.
     
  3. Caroline35 Senior Member

    Rovigo(Italy)
    Italian
    A group of people who operated underground
     
  4. gettingby Senior Member

    Italy
    AmEnglish
    Hello! I know that a "clandestino" is an illegal immigrant. In this sentence, thus, we are speaking (I think) of a sort of amnesty for Rom people. So what is the condition in English - illegality? I'm also very confused the red "o" - I know it should be either but I don't see the two alternatives.

    Per cui si rende necessario mettere in atto politiche che prendano inconsiderazione questo “dato di fatto”, che responsabilizzino i cittadini e quanti nascono/vivono per anni all’interno di uno stato pur non riconoscendoli come tali o proponendo un’accezione alternativa che non necessariamente debba sconfinare in un più“semplice” riconoscimento di clandestinità.

    Thus/therefore it becomes necessary to put policies into practice which take this "established fact" into consideration, which give a sense of responsibility to those who are born and live for years within the borders of a state like citizens even if they are not recognized as such, perhaps by proposing an alternative type of acceptance which may not necessarily result in an amnesty (conversion of their illegal status).
     
    Last edited: Feb 14, 2013
  5. Pat (√2) Senior Member

    Italia
    Italiano
    Ciao :)
    E' una frase difficile da decifrare senza conoscere bene il contesto. Tuttavia:
    a) accezione significa questo;
    b) tendo a escludere che "riconoscere la clandestinità" significhi legalizzare la loro posizione. Direi che significa "riconoscerli come/definirli/considerarli ufficialmente clandestini".
    Di quale "dato di fatto" si sta parlando?
     
  6. gettingby Senior Member

    Italy
    AmEnglish
    Ciao!
    a) acceptance era una delle scelte nel link che avevo già guardato, l'ho scelto per questo!
    b) Il contesto completo sono le raccomandazioni alla fine di uno studio sui Rom, e sono sicurissima (nel totalità delle raccomandazioni) che l'autore voglia dire che per risolvere i loro problemi dovrebbero ricevere o la cittadinanza, o qualcosa più "leggera" ma simile. Per questo ho pensato ad amnesty.
    c) il "dato di fatto" sarebbe (in parte) il fatto che quando si parla di deportare i Rom (perchè scomodi, non cittadini), si parla di paesi a cui non sono mai stati, e di cui non sanno nulla, essendo nati e cresciuti in Italia.
     
  7. elfa

    elfa Senior Member

    Bath, England
    English
    Hi GB :)

    I would interpret the "o" here is an alternative to the preceding clause "pur non riconoscendoli come tali". So I might translate it as

    ...which give a sense of responsibility to those who are born and and live for with years within a country [either] by not recognising them as such or by proposing an alternative type of acceptance which may not necessarily result in a "straightforward" recognition of their illegal status.

    Presumably "e quanti nascono" should read "a quanti nascono"?

    Also @ Pat, presumably the "established fact" is the presence of "clandestini" within Italy.
     
  8. gettingby Senior Member

    Italy
    AmEnglish
    Thank you kindly, Elfa! Perhaps it's this "recognition" that troubles me now. I would think this indicates some sort of "YES you are indeed illegal" when what I want is "OK, we recognize that you are contributing members of society, so we'll legalize you." What do you think of "legitimization" instead of "recognition"?
    And yes, a quanti nascono. I'm the queen of typos lately..
     
  9. elfa

    elfa Senior Member

    Bath, England
    English
    Hi again

    Oops - haven't we mistranslated "sconfinare" here? Wouldn't that mean "exclude" i.e. go beyond the limits of accepting? ...which may not necessarily exclude a "simple" recognition of people's illegal status
     
  10. gettingby Senior Member

    Italy
    AmEnglish
    Oooh, that's perfect. I knew something was missing. Thanks Elfa!
     
  11. Pat (√2) Senior Member

    Italia
    Italiano
    Tu conosci il contesto. Presa a sé, la frase è "poco" :)rolleyes:) comprensibile :)
     
  12. gettingby Senior Member

    Italy
    AmEnglish
    I'd say that is an understatement, dear square-root-of-two :) - I'm hoping acceptance is indeed correct and I am much obliged for your contribution.
     

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